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UK DfT / CAA N-reg training/revalidation flight permission (no longer needed)

Page 29 onwards, here

I had heard about this before but it was non-public information then. The previous information was that the CAA would set up a website via which it would be selling these permits, for a charge not known at the time I heard about it. The new proposal, to remove this requirement entirely, is a very good move, because any remotely excessive CAA charge would simply drive EASA IR renewals (set to become the most common reason for these permissions, with EASA shafting the N-reg IFR community into getting the EASA IR) to either (a) somewhere outside UK airspace or (b) to be done with an IRI who doesn’t charge for the flight itself.

Last Edited by Peter at 31 Jan 16:47
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I must admit I don’t apply for our one, but its not too much hassle is it to apply for or renew an aerial license such that instructors can teach you in your own N reg is it? Any suggestion to do away with it though, sounds like a good idea. Always seemed a bit pointless really.

The reason this was with DfT not the CAA is because it is a trade issue, not a safety issue and therefore not within the remit of the CAA

The consultation from the shift from DfT to CAA is here.

The recommendations you quote are just that: recommendations from a panel. They are not proposals from the government.

[ local copy of doc ]

Thank you Bookworm.

That’s a very interesting document. I’ve seen parts of it over the years but never the whole thing.

But this is weird.

Look at the dates!

There is no Annex C.

This is also very interesting

Clearly there were extremely few N-reg owners revalidating their EASA IR in 2012. I made the point to the DfT chap that this is likely to rise massively due to EASA’s screwing of the N-reg IFR community post April 2015.

Of course people can be doing their IR revalidation outside UK airspace (fly the IRE as a “passenger” to say Le Touquet), or they can find a mate which is an IRE does does it for free (lunch at LTQ is not so bad, for someone who rarely gets a chance to go past the nearest crease in the chart ).

If the CAA charge £100 for the permit, I’d say almost the whole of southern UK N-reg community is going to be doing one of the above two options.

And then, given

i.e. a couple of officials on say £70k plus building overheads, the CAA will publish a document stating that they need to increase the cost to £300… screwing all those who don’t have the social contacts to be able to do the alternatives.

It turns out that I wrote up some notes on this, originally in 2005, here, so I updated them a bit.

Last Edited by Peter at 10 Feb 13:30
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Response here

Thanks again.

I may be missing something but I see nothing to do with GA in there.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Well it’s the response to the consultation that I cited earlier, on the transfer of the permissions process to the CAA. There were no GA comments. It does mention a charge of about £75.

Of course people can be doing their IR revalidation outside UK airspace (fly the IRE as a “passenger” to say Le Touquet), or they can find a mate which is an IRE does does it for free (lunch at LTQ is not so bad, for someone who rarely gets a chance to go past the nearest crease in the chart ).

Are you certain the French don’t have their own rules on such flights?

I am sure every country has such a rule (otherwise the whole of its training fleet would be N-reg ) but there is ample evidence that this is not enforced for ad hoc private training.

One just needs to keep a fairly low profile. There is already a lot of training going on to the French airports because they don’t charge for approaches, and if you don’t land that’s even better.

I dare say that if a large UK FTO suddenly started flying to France, questions would be raised, but an FTO cannot get CAA approval for an ops manual permitting them to fly outside the UK – this has been tried recently, without success.

Finally, if it is a revalidation (not renewal – that throws you back to an FTO) flight, the LHS is capable of being PIC the whole time, so the end result is just a flight to say LTQ (for the ILS), then a flight somewhere else out there (for the NP approach), and a flight back to the UK. That is just a normal flight in every way – no indication of “training”. The training portion would be logged from mid channel onwards. Is there a reg that the IRE must be PIC at any time, or all the time?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The CAA form is here

Explanatory notes here

Fee is £75…

In effect, if you are N-reg and have an EASA IR, there is a £75 annual tax on having the IR. The only ways to get around this is to either get the examiner to not charge for the flight, or do the flight outside UK airspace. Or of course to revalidate the IR in a G-reg, but (a) renting that is going to cost way more than flying your own and (b) you won’t likely be current in it. So, the safety improvement is negative.

Last Edited by Peter at 04 May 09:07
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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