Peter,
i am not talking about the invoice the dealer got, but by the original invoice the customer got (from Cirrus) which has VAT on it. I got me a copy of that invoice from Cirrus Europe after I bought the airplane. It was originally delivered to Roe and I have a copy of that invoice which proves that the first owner paid VAT.
“engines that were over TBO”
Not to mention the curtains 
Paint looks nice though.
Peter, I agree with Dublinpilot, it might be useful to several of us to have a copy of the relevant paragraph of that EU VAT treaty handy.
Here is somebody who can get you a C88, using the route mentioned above.
Re the VAT treaty, I will leave it to somebody to google for it 
I have a copy of that invoice which proves that the first owner paid VAT.
A VAT invoice doesn’t prove that the import VAT was paid. It merely proves the VAT was invoiced In business, you will know the difference
Thanks Peter (yes, you were right… and I appreciate the effort you went to) and Flyer59.
As ever, an aircraft flies on its paperwork. This is one more potential gap in the documentation.
That’s not correct Peter. If a private first owner bought the airplane from a dealer and paid German or italian VAT then that’s enough proof. I had a lawyer work on that when i bought (another) Cirrus in the Czech republic and i got that information from czech customs back then.
Edit: I forgot that i did not only get the invoice but also a confirmation that the plane went through customs when it was imported (by ferry flight).
Here is somebody who can get you a C88, using the route mentioned above.
But what’s the point in that? “Pay the VAT again, and then you won’t have a VAT problem!” doesn’t sound like much of a solution to me! Imagine your accountant told you to pay the VAT again on your aircraft, simply to prove that the VAT was paid. I don’t think you’d consider that much of a solution. You might as well pay the Spanish once they impound your aircraft!
But what’s the point in that? “Pay the VAT again, and then you won’t have a VAT problem!” doesn’t sound like much of a solution to me! Imagine your accountant told you to pay the VAT again on your aircraft, simply to prove that the VAT was paid. I don’t think you’d consider that much of a solution. You might as well pay the Spanish once they impound your aircraft!
I think the most common scenario here is where you buy a plane “VAT paid” (probably the vast majority of private purchases) and then you likely get no VAT documentation whatsoever. In most such cases, “VAT” doesn’t even enter the buyer’s mind. But if a plane is bought “plus VAT” by a VAT reg’d company, there is much more likely to be a proper trail because accounting for VAT is serious stuff, and such a plane will have always lived in the corporate world.
So, yes, as a private owner you will effectively be paying the VAT twice, to get the C88… OTOH you will be paying it on the current market value which will probably be a lot lower than the price you paid for it. And, you will be doing your damnest to depress that MV Past damage, prop strikes, etc, are awfully useful for this purpose. In that respect you might prefer to establish the MV yourself rather than get the Spanish to do it for you
Any way you look at this, it is a crap solution, but unfortunately many people do buy planes without getting stuff they should have got. Sometimes it is not knowing (think of how much you knew when you got your PPL… I knew bugger-all at that point) and sometimes people fall in love with a plane and just buy it because they “want to believe”. It’s a bit like buying a plane and failing to get the CofA (or whatever). You may have to do a pointless Annual (a few k, plus any worms discovered) to be legal to fly. Or buying a plane with no Annual release to service / no logbooks, or with logbooks which fail to show AD compliance… you will need to get the compliance sorted otherwise it cannot legally fly and that could mean replacing some parts again because if the parts in question are lifed but there are no records of where they came from or who fitted them you have to throw them away and fit new ones! Even if the original ones had serial numbers. There is a story, with a very true ring to it, that a 737 had to be scrapped (as the least expensive route) because somebody lost the logs for a landing gear overhaul.
When I bought my TB20, new, I asked Air Touring to include the complete MM. They agreed. Did it come with the plane? What do you think… By the time I realised I had been conned, I had already paid a 50k deposit and they had me by the balls.
How do you prove your plane is VAT-paid?
We have had numerous threads on this but this is a slightly new one…
Most people don’t have a C88, IM4, or a Cert of Free Circulation.
But I have never heard of anybody who got busted when travelling and found a sales invoice from a dealer to be insufficient. Of course the huge problem here is data: most won’t be boasting about having got busted!
But I have heard of somebody in the UK who got traced by UK Customs (a non travelling situation) and whose invoice was insufficient and he had to pay it again. I imagine there will be many owners who are vulnerable in this way, especially as their home Customs offices have all the time they need to dig them out and visit them.
Basically any plane you buy from a private seller, without a C88, IM4, or a Cert of FC, and where the original importer’s documents are missing (note that an importer in the UK doesn’t need to retain documents past 6 years) could potentially be thus targeted. The private seller has no obligation to give you adequate (or indeed any) documents.
So, all it needs is for your home Customs to have a “blitz” on aircraft and you are a sitting duck.
Another reason for a thorough prebuy… if you don’t get the docs, discount the selling price by 20% or so.
What is the importance of a C88, IM4, or a Cert of Free Circulation if your aircraft was built in UK (or the EU) and has never been imported?
What is the importance of a C88, IM4, or a Cert of Free Circulation if your aircraft was built in UK (or the EU) and has never been imported?
None.
I have it from this aviation VAT specialist that say a TB20 (French made) was moved around the EU under an internal VAT arrangement, and provided that it was never physically exported and re-imported, the concept of it being non VAT paid is meaningless.
Bizzarely that does not mean that a Cert of Free Circulation cannot be generated and indeed the old Danish zero-VAT route did deliver one of those, even for French made planes. I spoke to the guy doing it (Lasse Rungholm) myself, in 2002. I did not use the Danish route (I thought it was a ripoff, but in retrospect it was the least bad option – a long story) but I got a CofFC from UK Customs shortly before they shut down the unit doing them.
The practical issue may be that some airport VAT inspector isn’t going to know the above and will impound the plane until you pay. He won’t care less. In say France it is going to be very hard to appeal especially if you can’t speak French. Whereas a plane which was always in the EU should be immune from an attack by the owner’s domestic VAT people – they have to be careful because the pilot is on his home turf and can easily appeal. That is why I got the CofFC – for an inspection during a trip.
Of course only a small % of GA planes was made in the EU
