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2018 fly-in - Cambridge EGSC 12-13 May 2018

The argument is indeed hard to follow. When you fly an IAP you will afterwards be below the clouds. So from that point on, it’s a “normal” (but short) VFR flight. So unless one says that an IFR pilot is (for lack of routine or whatever) no longer able to safely fly VFR, the argument doesn’t “fly”.

Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

Come to EDTY, then I can take part :)

Although I am about 1 month away from finishing the upgrades on my aircraft, I’ve been exactly one month away from finishing for the last year… So given my track record :)

I’ll try to come along, wherever it is.

The argument is indeed hard to follow. When you fly an IAP you will afterwards be below the clouds. So from that point on, it’s a “normal” (but short) VFR flight. So unless one says that an IFR pilot is (for lack of routine or whatever) no longer able to safely fly VFR, the argument doesn’t “fly”.

For any given wx scenario (short of CAVOK all the way to outer space) an IAP improves the turnout at a fly-in because some part of the VFR pilot spectrum will cancel if they see a TAF of say OVC020, some larger part will cancel if they see a TAF of say OVC015, etc, while IFR pilots will turn up all the time the TAF is above IAP minima (more or less). But both OVC015 and OVC020 are fine for VFR

Anyway, we have not had many in Germany. I think this is because few people have suggested them, or they suggested airports whose chief USP is a Zeppellin or Messerschmitt museum That does not make a family-friendly fly-in. Someone suggested by PM Zell am See (Austria) or St Johann (both of which are probably nice in May) and I suggested to him that he posts it, but he hasn’t…………..

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter As @boscomantico I don‘t understand your arguments against the vfr part after an ils cloud breaking, especially regarding Freiburg. After the ils cloud breaking at Colmar it is a 9 minutes flight in pattern altitude to Freiburg. The pattern altitude at Colmar is 1600 ft at Freiburg 1800 ft. All in all that means it is only slightly different going from Colmar to Freiburg then doing an ils approach followed by an circling pattern if the wind is opposite to the direction the ils takes you to the field, if only one ils is installed at the field. And this manover every ir rated pilot should be able to fly.

EDDS , Germany

Actually, I think that it would be even more straight-forward (literally!) if using Lahr. After flying the ILS to 21 (which will be in use anytime the weather is poor), it’s just a matter of following the very wide Rhine valley and the very wide Autobahn right into the traffic circuit of Freiburg:

I agree that in other places, the VFR part is often more complicated and tricky than that, but in the case of Freiburg, it is really trivial.

BTW, in the screenshot, one can also see how close Freiburg is to the mountains. The Feldberg, Germany’s highest mountain outside the Alps, is just a few miles to the southeast. And also BTW, I might be going skiing there for a day on one of the next few weekends. There is some decent snow there right now and the lifts opened a few days ago.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 18 Nov 20:57
Frankfurt (EDFZ, EDFE), Germany

Sure; there are examples like that, but there are also counter-examples.

Also the ability to fly down somebody’s ILS and then proceed VFR to a VFR airfield is a procedure which is not verifiable by a visitor. The locals will know whether it is normally allowed, or not. And IFR cancellation brings various issues – again OK with local knowledge of course, but a fly-in doesn’t attract many locals

Anyway, good suggestions coming in

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I wonder why. Seriously why?

For me it’s because I don’t want to fly 8 hours to realize that I have to land to alternate (which is 50 NM away) due to OVC030 when this can be easily and perfectly prevented by choosing right airfield.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

There is a key factor for why we have not had many fly-ins to Germany.

Almost everybody turns up at Aero EDNY (Friedrichshafen) “because one does” and we have a meet-up there. We tend to get some 20+ people then. That is in April, and almost nobody who went to that (mostly Germans, but plenty of others too) has any appetite left for doing a meet-up in Germany (or probably another EuroGA one for that matter) so soon afterwards.

And Freiburg is just down the road from Friedrichshafen.

So IMHO almost nobody above will turn up to Freiburg. Most fly-in visitors are quite strategic…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Actually, I think that it would be even more straight-forward (literally!) if using Lahr.

That‘s right and the normal procedure when coming from the north. From the West it might be better to go to Colmar. Also if the visibility is not to good, using Colmar will keep you south of the Kaiserstuhl, so you can really fly at the minimum.

The locals will know whether it is normally allowed, or not. And IFR cancellation brings various issues – again OK with local knowledge of course, but a fly-in doesn’t attract many locals

My standard – and I have used it on several airports and in different countries – is to put a remark in the flightplan: Request ILS approach at xxxx for cloudbreaking only.
With this I never had any issues if it was necessary to do so.

EDDS , Germany

I have cleaned up the list of past destinations in post #25.

Just realised: we have never had a fly-in to the UK! Cambridge is really nice.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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