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A cheap way to get 8.33 - an "approved" handheld radio

UK offset-carrier (“climax”) frequencies:

119,525 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(TRENT)
119,725 ACC LONDON ACC(DIRECTOR NORTH)
120,025 ACC LONDON ACC(NERCSBY5A)
120,475 ACC LONDON ACC(TC South 270+TC South D)(*)
123,950 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(OCEANIC)
124,900 ACC NORTH SEA(WEST OF SHETLAND)
125,275 ACC NORTH SEA(ANGLIA RADAR)
125,950 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(STBY PT1)
125,950 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(PC WEST STNDBY)
125,950 ACC MANCHESTER/MANCHESTER(STBY PT1+STBY PT2)
126,875 ACC LONDON ACC(NERCSBY4)
126,925 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(MONTROSE COMBINED)
127,275 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(WESTCOASTB)
127,525 ACC LONDON ACC(Heathrow Standby 2+Heathrow Standby)(*)
127,650 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(OCEANIC)
127,700 ACC LONDON ACC(NERCSBY3)
128,675 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(SCOTTISH NORTH UPPER)
128,925 ACC NORTH SEA(ANGLIA RADAR 2)
129,100 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(RATHLIN)
129,225 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(MORAY HIGH)
131,050 ACC LONDON ACC(LONDON ACC AREA 1B+LONDON ACC AREA 1C+LONDON ACC AREA 1A+LONDON ACC AREA 3)(*)
131,300 ACC NORTH SEA(SUMBURGH RADAR)
132,300 ACC LONDON ACC(LONDON ACC AREA 4B+LONDON ACC AREA 1B+LONDON ACC AREA 1C+LONDON ACC 2A+LONDO
132,550 ACC NORTH SEA(REBROS NORTHB+REBROS SOUTH2)
133,450 ACC LONDON ACC(TC North E FL 120+TC NORTH E B)(*)
133,525 ACC LONDON ACC(U3+U4)
133,675 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(HEBRIDES)
133,800 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(SCOTTISH EAST P2+EAST+SCOTTISH EAST P3+SCOTTISH EAST P1)(*)
133,975 ACC LONDON ACC(TC NORTH STNDBY)
134,100 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(NORTHERN NORTH SEA)
134,425 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(STAFA)
134,850 ACC SCOTTISH ACC(MORAY LOW)
134,975 ACC LONDON ACC(DIRECTOR SOUTH)
135,175 ACC NORTH SEA(REBROS NORTHB+REBROS SOUTH2)
135,325 ACC LONDON ACC(LAMP 270b+NERC16(NEW)+NERC 18)(*)
136,575 ACC MANCHESTER ACC(SCOTTISH NORTH LOWER)
136,600 ACC LONDON ACC(NERC STANDBY2B)
118,950 APP 510900N 001100W
120,400 APP 512800N 002700W
120,625 APP 515300N 001400E
122,250 APP NORTH SEA(BRENTRADAR)
125,625 APP 512800N 002700W
126,825 APP 510900N 001100W
128,025 APP LONDON/CITY(Thames Radar)
128,750 APP 515300N 002200W
128,750 APP 555200N 042600W
129,025 APP 510900N 001100W
129,550 APP 515300N 002200W
131,300 APP 595300N 011800W
132,050 APP 515300N 001400E
132,700 APP LONDON/CITY(TC THAMES Radar)
136,200 APP 515900N 002100E
136,200 APP 515300N 001400E
119,875 FIS SCOTTISH ACC(FIR)
124,600 FIS LONDON ACC(FIS EAST)
124,750 FIS LONDON ACC(FSW FL110+FSW FL125+FSW FL200+FSW+FSW FL75)(*)
125,475 FIS LONDON ACC(FIRN)
125,725 VOLMET 563000N 040300W
126,600 VOLMET 512800N 002700W
128,600 VOLMET 512800N 002700E
135,375 VOLMET 512800N 002700E
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Since there is no detectable difference between using 125.000 on a 25k radio and using 125.005 on an 8.33 radio, why not?
I don’t really know, but I can make two guesses:

  • To make it possible to use a 25 kHz aircraft radio with these channels. 8.33 kHz radios will be required only in airspace where radio contact is required and there are vast area in northern Sweden with essentially no such airspace at lower levels so aircraft operating there can go on with only their old 25 kHz radios. Even if it would work technically, the NAA can’t reasonably condone “faking it” with tuning 125.000 (say) on a 25 kHz radio to use the 125.005 channel. Also if 125.000 stays a 25 kHz channel, then there will not be any allocations on the 124.990 and 125.010 channels, both which are likely to cause interference on 125.000.
  • So that clubs and schools don’t have to replace their 25 kHz ground radio stations.

There has also been mention of keeping FIS frequencies in northern Sweden on 25 kHz channels for the same reason. I haven’t heard how that is progressing, but there is still half a year to go…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Sweden will keep twelve 25 kHz channels for club and school purposes for at least 10 years.

Since there is no detectable difference between using 125.000 on a 25k radio and using 125.005 on an 8.33 radio, why not?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

sugarcube wrote:

So it appears even after the “complete” switch to 8.33, dozens (or even hundreds) of 25khz frequencies willl remain in use. Quite a different story then i heard before, some people told me that very soon after 01/2018 all 25khz will be converted to 8.33 khz, only 121.5 will remain.
Even if you don’t count the offset carrier channels, there are other exceptions. E.g. Sweden will keep twelve 25 kHz channels for club and school purposes for at least 10 years.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:


This popped into my email yesterday. Offset carrier (“climax” – what an unfortunate name ) usage in Europe

Anyone knows what these numbers mean ? Are these the number frequencies using offset carrier, or are these the offsets/number of base stations (thus the number of actual frequencies multiplied by 2, 3, 4…)

So it appears even after the “complete” switch to 8.33, dozens (or even hundreds) of 25khz frequencies willl remain in use. Quite a different story then i heard before, some people told me that very soon after 01/2018 all 25khz will be converted to 8.33 khz, only 121.5 will remain.

EBTN, EBST, Belgium

What is funny about the above map is how the UK is the top country for using offset carriers – for stuff like London Info. These cannot go to 8.33 because their operation needs the “more sloppy” receivers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This popped into my email yesterday. Offset carrier (“climax” – what an unfortunate name ) usage in Europe

The above mentioned document is here
Thanks Finners.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter – I will email you the PDF

That’s very weird. If I click on the link in my usual browser, I get the PDF. If I click on the link from another browser, I get a 404 error. Hmm.
As I know the Eurocontrol links to be unreliable, there is a manual option via the secondary route for which I provided instructions.

EGTT, The London FIR

Unfortunately that Eurocontrol URL appears to have been dead for some years… I know they change the token monthly (presumably a crude attempt to prevent people creating links to the database) but even the PDF itself, while referenced variously on the www, appears to be gone. If anyone can find the PDF, please email it to me and I will insert it here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There is an AIC which describes how this works – unfortunately it’s in the EAD system and the link below is likely to expire.
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-085E3F942AF1FEEBA5716725F62A17D9/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIC/P/072-2008/EG_Circ_2008_P_072_en_2008-08-14.pdf

If the link fails, the document is: AIC 72/2008, Compatibility of airborne VHF receivers with offset carrier systems

Go to http://www.ais.org.uk
Select IAIP from the ribbon menu
Then select Aeronautical Information Circulars from the sidebar menu
Choose Pink (P) – Safety related topics from
Scroll down to 2008 and locate: Compatibility of Airborne VHF RTF Receivers with Off-set Carrier Systems72(P144)/08

EGTT, The London FIR
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