Michael wrote:
Which would include servicing the loan and/or depreciation of a multi-hundred-thousand £ acft as well as the insurance premium to cover the hull and every Tom,Dick & Harry with a PPL that rents it !
That may be true, but it is also true that a typical rental aircraft might do 300+ hours a year not 100, and the fuel cost per hour on a DA42 is loads less than a Seneca. I recently rented a DA42 at Gamston for an IR renewal , and the price was also around £400 ph.
Which would include servicing the loan and/or depreciation of a multi-hundred-thousand £ acft as well as the insurance premium to cover the hull and every Tom,Dick & Harry with a PPL that rents it !
Not sure there is a loan, and not sure it does cover all of the costs. It does however put things in perspective.
Michael
No longer operate a twin but my only current datapoint is £800-1,000 for the CAA annual on the Super Cub. If on permit this might just be £200-300 for the LAA inspector.
As stated earlier my lowest annual on a twin was £4k over ten years ago. Am not sure many A&P European licensed mechanics quote flat rates just for inspection, the expectation being they will be doing work to release back to service. £1,500 for a flat annual inspection on a MEP, presumably no rectification work, including VAT is incredibly cheap. Taking the inspection panels off an Aztec, and putting them back on, let alone the actual required duties and paperwork is a good week’s work. You also typically have deferred snags which need attending to.
Peter wrote:
I suspect that, based on MEP owners I know, there is a significant correlation between having the spare engine and the attitude to maintenancePeter – this is one of your correlations that I very much agree with!
I believe that there is a significant choice as to how much to spend on maintenance and upgrades. Some steps on the journey of increasing ownership cost might be:
- is it legal?
- is it safe?
- is it reliable? (e.g. it will start at 0600 at some remote airport, with everything working perfectly so I can feel confident flying home IFR from an exhausting business trip)
- is it a long term asset? (e.g. whilst we have that undercarriage part off for rebushing, let’s crack test it and powder coat it)
- is it a delight? (e.g. some nice glass, fresh leather interior, good paint)
I think it is perfectly reasonable for an owner to choose to operate at any point on the scale – but there are correspondingly huge variations in cost. Many MEP owners I know do tend to operate towards the more expensive end of the scale. I would also note that many (but not all) MEP owners, as illustrated by John R in this thread, are of the view that “sure it’s expensive, but it’s also great and I’m pleased I’m doing it” – me too, by the way.
RobertL18C wrote:
Your 310R buyer got him/herself a great deal.
Yes he did, particularly considering that he recently sold it and re-couped every single cent he spent on it, including paint & up-grades, ’cepting petrol.
Seems operating in the UK is just plain dear …
Ten years ago my lowest annual was around £4k for a NA twin, including VAT. Lowest 50 hour might have been £800. On the CAA items like hose pressure testing might be £3k or £4k depending on how many fail. These are not on the annual cycle but nothing is ever in synch. I think my worst annual which had an expensive AD and dealt with some corrosion on the undercarriage came in at £14k. £10k on average is therefore a conservative estimate, recall it covers an additional fifty hour, and the usual glitches which need fixing in between inspection. Lots of these though hopefully not at once: brakes, magnetos, avionics, alternators, voltage regulators, injectors, hydraulics, etc.
Your 310R buyer got him/herself a great deal. A well maintained aircraft with less than half timed components (both in hours and time cycle), is an ideal purchase, assuming you depreciate it to run out value. Recent run out twins that have not been broken for spares but bought to be re engined seem to go for £10-15k on a good day.
It may not be the most accurate rule of thumb, but we seem to be operating in a £1 per HP hourly cost environment for GA, assuming a reasonable ownership period and utilisation.
Peter – Whilst that may be for the most part true, the OP based this on AVERAGE over 10 years, so those postponed issues would have been dealt with in the first couple of annuals .
I have a client that bought a full IFR & deiced Cessna 310R for less than £30K , 3 years ago.
The TOTAL maintenance bill for the last 3 YEARS and 200 hours flying is less than £10K …
I suspect that, based on MEP owners I know, there is a significant correlation between having the spare engine and the attitude to maintenance 
Some are very open about it.
So such a plane will likely come with a pile of postponed issues.
One well known Aztec owner has been very open about spending GBP 20K annually on maintenance. Based on one C152 I know costing 7k at the Annual this seems normal.
JohnR wrote:
the average annual is £10k
AVERAGE ?
What’s your shop’s “flat rate” for an annual on that Aztec ? What’s your shop’s hourly rate ?
Personally, I charge 2500€ (1850£) flat for an Annual Inspection on a light twin (no turbos, no pressurisation) and that includes the FAA sign-off. Consider that a proper Annual IAW the Maintenance Manual, is 35 – 40 man-hours .
I think an IO540 at FL180 would run for 5000hrs 
It’s about 40% of max HP.
