Peter wrote:
most EuroGA readers will have to google translate it
Mais pas les francophones 
merci ADLS
Sorry for forgetting the VENISE trip report traduction (that I have posted in French)…time for me to consult a Neurologist ?
If any interest thank for reading
I planned an air trip with my BEECHCRAFT Bonanza to Venice Lido LIPV (although my wife had preferred to fly there).
I thank those who warned me of the particularities of VFR flight in Italy (MILAN area and VRP)
I had to wait until the third week of June for good weather.
This Tuesday, June 18, 2019 the forecast is good, I reserve on BOOKING at the last moment the Hotel Splendid Starhotels in Venice at 7:30 LT (for several weeks I checked the rooms available in the few hotels that meet my criteria).
VFR departure at 9:00 LT from my aerodrome Moret Episy LFPU (south of Fontainebleau / Melun) in the initial direction of VALENCE.
As I said in a post, the trip by the Alpine passes (Brenner or Gotthard preferred) was refused by my wife who did not want a mountain.
Anyway the problem did not arise for this June 18th because it did not seem feasible in the Alps (and in addition no O2 to climb higher)
the road passed through the valllee of Rhone, 600 NM, with a technical stop Essence VALENCIA LFLU after 1H37 flight and I activated my FPL takeoff VALENCIA routing LFLU DGN LIMJ LIMG LIMP LIPV (via PZS4 and PZS3 ).
A friend whose FK14 is parked next to my plane, and who is Captain Air France, had warned me to arrive with the maximum fuel LIPV because there is only one runway currently in service at LIPZ (the other is in repair) and in case of arrival from the North the wait can be very long!
For my part, the problem did not really arise when arriving from the south of the lagoon ….
After taking off VALENCIA I climbed FL75 to DGN where my wife noticed that it was not as flat as I promised!
After the swarms of paragliding (especially after DGN) some of which were flying in the middle of the valleys sometimes less than 1000 ’under us, the ceiling went down, first hanging the peaks still snowy then all the horizon in front and time to get into a cumulus I opted to SAN REMO to join the coastal route quite foggy, descent 6000 ’mandatory to GENOVA (LIMG) then direction PARME flying over the low mountains of the LIGURE.
MILAN asked me to go down to 3000 ’passing through the VRP of the PARMA CTR and we finished the journey in a still foggy and warm weather ++ with a small head wind adding to the consumption of Bonanza at these altitudes .
Magic arrival to VENICE LIDO (Nicelli) LIPV in self-information after 2H36 of flight, close circuit in 05 refueling and parked with the windsock because, remaining 4 days the parking had to be free to receive June 21 of the DC3.
Strenuous walking under a hot sun with the wheeled suitcase and backpack for over half an hour to reach the Vaporetto station and finish dehydrated at the Hotel; 4 hot but beautiful days (walk in the canals, dinners on the canals with good wines Chardonnay and ballads on the grand canal or omnibus Vaporetto.
The departure of Friday 21 is advanced in the morning because of thunderstorms planned in the afternoon on the Massif Central Rhône Lyon area and we reach the small port of Nicelli Lido by TAXI BOAT taking us to the pontoon of the hotel … the class ! Super trip in the maze of small canals to reach the lagoon by the hospital and we go to the LIDO.
One of the DC3 has arrived but the other 3, coming from FRANCE, will probably not pass (I confirm) ..
Takeoff 05 and exit PZS3 then PZS4 to make us avoid 1500 ‘arrivals on LIPZ … we can only climb too far to 4000’ and finally 6000 ’max after PARME.
Journey to GENOVA SAVONE ALBENGA and border crossing at IVLAM (vintimille) direction NIZ and FAYENCE for refueling at AIX EN PROVENCE LFMA after 2H25 of fine weather flight.
Takeoff of LFMA for a direct to LFPU at FL65 and after MONTELIMAR the time on our left on the Massif Central is dark (thunderstorms on Clermont Ferrand) and the cumulus clouds are obviously on my road obliging me as soon as SAINT ETIENNE with more and more bypasses more hazardous and after having the last METAR of Saint YAN I go down to the FL45 with drizzle and then I finish after 1H58 flight under cumulus and sun (Massif Central and Lyonnais zones will be in “VIGILANCE ORANGE” for thunderstorms at from 5 pm
Note that on the go and return (LFLU LIPV then LIPV LFMA) the FPL were announced “activated” by the two TWR and yet the different frequencies asked me my routing and I came to understand that they had never been passed on to anyone! The LFMA tower confirmed this to me when I asked for confirmation of the closure of the FPL … I was told that there was no trace of FPL.
I confirm that in ITALY it is illusory on this way to reason in level of flight and to calculate performances and consumptions, that VRP can can be requested (PARME e.g) ; NICE and MILANO fréquencies are inaudible at FL 75 ; AVGAS is very expensive at LIDO but the south arrival, the LDG in 05 and the aerodrome are so nice not to mention VENISE
It looks like a great trip but you posted the report in French It means most EuroGA readers will have to google translate it.
Hello
I use AUTOROUTER for IFR and it does all the job of preparing the flight that I need and I have just to post the FPL and receive the acknowledge in return by TELEGRAM.
Great APP that a lot of us are using.
The VALENCE TWR has the FPL and confirmes to me at Take Off that it was well activated…however, PROVENCE and NICE didn’t seem to heard about this FPL.
PADOUE recall me to cancel this FPL after landing LIDO LIPV because TWR was closed during midday and I phone at 39 02 71020 019 were a charming female voice confirm FPL was closed but dont seem to have any marks of the call sign nor the FPL…so, as you say, this FPL was really activated.
At take off LIPV, TWR was on duty and we speak about activating the FPL and it seem to be OK but this was associated with the fact I specified PZS3 and PZS4 at 1500’ to leave LIPV and that’s was really interest the TWR and they call to contact PADOUE at PZS3…so was the FPL activated or not, by LIPV or PADOUE control area ?…and the same scenario as the coming flight.
Then AIX en PROVENCE TWR tell me he cannot closed the FPL because he don’t received that FPL and NICE control as well..
So I’am not sur of anything but the main thing his, of course, to close with ATC or PHONE after landing.
It his so easy in IFR or Z FPL when you get your clearance : at each ATC contact tou say the magic words “GENEVA, D-ENNR, hello, LEVEL 110 on course to LIRKO”…
I don’t use VFR FPL in france and perhaps everything was OK, no INCERFA, ALERTFA or DETRESFA at all…but never the more it was a nice flight !
noter qu’à l’aller comme au retour (LFLU LIPV puis LIPV LFMA) les FPL ont été annoncés “activés” par les deux TWR et, pourtant les differentes fréquences me demandaient mon routing et j’ai fini par comprendre qu’ils n’avaient jamais été transmis à personne ! La tour de LFMA me l’a d’ailleurs confirmé lorsque j’ai demandé confirmation de la cloture du FPL…Il m’a été répondu qu’il n’y avait aucune trace de FPL.
How did you file these flightplans?
Note that in Italy (and in many other countries), enroute ATC stations / FIS will never have your flightplan details, even if it has been filed and distributed correctly.
Bonjour à tous
J’avais projeté un voyage aérien avec mon BEECHCRAFT Bonanza en direction de Venise Lido LIPV (bien que mon épouse eu préféré y aller par avion de ligne).
Je remercie ceux qui m’ont prévenu des particularités de vol VFR en Italie (zone de MILAN et VRP)
J’ai dû attendre jusqu’en cette troisieme semaine de juin le beau temps.
Ce mardi 18 juin 2019 la prévision est bonne, je réserve sur BOOKING au dernier moment l’Hotel Splendid Starhotels dans Venise à 7h30 LT (depuis plusieurs semaines je vérifiais les chambres disponibles dans les quelques hotels répondant à mes critères).
Départ VFR à 9H00 LT de mon aerodrome Moret Episy LFPU (sud de Fontainebleau /Melun) en direction initiale de VALENCE.
Comme je l’avais dit dans un post, le trajet par les cols des Alpes (le Brenner ou le Gothard de préférence) était refusé par mon épouse qui ne voulait pas de montagne.
De toute façon le problème ne se posait pour ce 18 juin car cela ne semblait pas faisable dans les Alpes (et en plus pas d’O2 pour monter plus haut)
la route passait donc par la valllée du Rhone, soit 600 NM, avec une escale technique Essence à VALENCE LFLU après 1H37 de vol puis j’ai activé mon FPL au décollage de VALENCE, routing LFLU DGN LIMJ LIMG LIMP LIPV (via PZS4 et PZS3).
Un ami dont le FK14 est garé à côté de mon avion, et qui est Captain Air France, m’avait prévenu d’arriver avec le maximum d’essence À LIPV car il n’ y a qu’une piste en service actuellement à LIPZ (l’autre est en réfection) et en cas d’arrivée par le Nord l’attente peut être très longue !
Pour ma part, le problème ne se posait pas vraiment en arrivant par le sud de la lagune….
Après le décollage de VALENCE je suis monté FL75 vers DGN où mon épouse a remarqué que cela n’était pas aussi plat que ce que je lui avais promis !
Passées les nuées de parapente (notamment après DGN) dont certains volaient au milieu des vallées parfois à moins de 1000’ sous nous, le plafond descendis, accrochant d’abord les sommets encore enneigés puis tout l’horizon devant et le temps de rentrer dans un cumulus j’obliquais vers SAN REMO pour rejoindre le trajet côtier assez brumeux, descente 6000 ‘ mandatory à GENOVA (LIMG) puis direction PARME survolant les basses montagnes de la LIGURE.
MILAN me demanda de descendre à 3000 ‘ en passant par les VRP de la CTR de PARME et nous avons fini le trajet dans un temps toujours brumeux et chaud ++ avec un petit vent de face s’additionnant à la consommation du Bonanza à ces altitudes.
Arrivée magique à VENISE LIDO (Nicelli) LIPV en auto-information après 2H36 de vol, circuit rapproché en 05 ravitaillement et garé à la manche à air car, restant 4 jours le parking devait être libre pour recevoir le 21 juin des DC3.
Marche penible sous un soleil bien chaud avec la valise à roulette et le sac à dos pendant plus d’une demi heure pour rejoindre la gare de Vaporetto et finir déshydraté à l’Hotel ; 4 jours chauds mais magnifiques (ballade dans les canaux, diners sur les canaux avec de bons vins Chardonnay et ballades sur le grand canal ou omnibus en Vaporetto.
Le depart de vendredi 21 est avancé au matin en raison des orages prévus dans l’après midi sur la zone Massif Central Rhône Lyon et on rejoins le petit port de Nicelli Lido par un TAXI BOAT qui nous prend au ponton de l’hôtel…la classe ! Trajet super dans les dédales de petits canaux pour rejoindre la lagune par l’hôpital et on file vers le LIDO.
Un des des DC3 est arrivé mais les 3 autres, venant de FRANCE, ne passeront sans doute pas (je confirme)..
Décollage 05 et sortie PZS3 puis PZS4 pour bien nous faire éviter à 1500’ les arrivées sur LIPZ…on ne pourra monter que trop loin vers 4000’ puis enfin 6000’ max après PARME.
Trajet vers GENOVA SAVONE ALBENGA et passage frontière à IVLAM (vintimille) direction NIZ et FAYENCE pour ravitailler en essence à AIX EN PROVENCE LFMA après 2H25 de vol de beau temps.
Décollage de LFMA pour une directe vers LFPU au FL65 et après MONTELIMAR le temps sur notre gauche sur le Massif Central est sombre (orages sur Clermont Ferrand) et les cumulus sont évidemment sur ma route m’obligeant dès SAINT ETIENNE à des contournements de plus en plus hasardeux et après avoir eu le dernier METAR de Saint YAN je descends au FL45 avec de la bruine et ensuite je finis apres 1H58 de vol sous des cumulus et du soleil (les zones Massif Central et lyonnais seront en “VIGILANCE ORANGE” pour orages à partir de 17H00.
A noter qu’à l’aller comme au retour (LFLU LIPV puis LIPV LFMA) les FPL ont été annoncés “activés” par les deux TWR et, pourtant les differentes fréquences me demandaient mon routing et j’ai fini par comprendre qu’ils n’avaient jamais été transmis à personne ! La tour de LFMA me l’a d’ailleurs confirmé lorsque j’ai demandé confirmation de la cloture du FPL…Il m’a été répondu qu’il n’y avait aucune trace de FPL.
Je confirme qu’en ITALIE il est illusoire sur ce trajet de raisonner en niveau de vol et calculer performances et consommations, que des VRP peuvent être demandés (PARME à l’aller) ; les fréquences de NICE et MILAN sont quasi inaudibles au FL75..et que l’essence au LIDO est chère mais l’arrivée notamment par le SUD, l’atterrissage en 05 et l’aérodrome valent le détour sans parler de Venise !
I checked the Austria ICAO chart before posting, and the Brenner pass shows an altitude of 4500’ (ground). I consider 1000’ AGL minimum for crossing, depending upon wx and surroundings. Given the 10k peaks on both sides, I’d want 6000’ ASL for crossing the Brenner in good weather, higher if wx is even a bit iffy. But 9000’ is definitely not necessary.
Agree that the southern route is the most reliable given the option of following the shore at low altitude, especially if travelling VFR per thread title. Wx over the Apennines needs to be good or else a winding route north around them from Genoa to the Po plains is needed.
The Brenner pass between Innsbruck and Bolzano is 4500’
This must be a dumb Q but is there really a route through the “middle” of the Alps at just above 4500ft? I do have topo data but it would take me a while to check the profile.
I thought the lowest level at which one can fly, VFR and 1000ft above the ground, is about 9000ft.
The Massif Centrale is of a similar height in places but of course one can fly around it.
From Paris to LIPV I would just go down to Cannes (avoiding the Massif Centrale) and then turn left to Venice, stopping for fuel as necessary. A TB20 can do that in one leg and I have done that route a number of times – example – when the Alps were covered in bad wx.
It would be nice to know at what altitude your wife draws the line with “Alps” or “mountains”. Does the Massif Centrale (dis)qualify? 
Arne wrote:
and then valleys near Lugano/Bolzano/Innsbrück?
Almost all valley routes through the central Alps cross a pass at some point that requires flight elevation over 7000’ amid much high higher peaks. The Brenner pass between Innsbruck and Bolzano is 4500’ and with peaks either side of over 10k I wouldn’t want to cross it at less than 6000’.
Continuing the northern Switzerland/southern Germany route a bit further east allows an IFR Alps crossing minimum altitude of around FL80 down into Slovenia. But you will need to go a fair ways east to get something south at less than FL100, probably almost to Vienna. After ZUE KPT you’ll likely need TRAUN SNU RADLY ILB or something similar. From Salzburg south is still quite high.
Why cancel IFR ? […] Edit: after checks it seems difficult to stay around FL100 and IFR over southern France.
Have you considered taking the detour over northern Switzerland/southern Germany and then valleys near Lugano/Bolzano/Innsbrück? autorouter finds routes via ZUE or KPT for example, and it’s shorter than the southern route, but you will need better ceiling.
