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Aero/Friedrichshafen 2013

Would I 'clear' into France when collecting fuel and THEN have to 'clear' again into Germany at EDNY.

It dosen't matter in which EU state you "clear" customs - once inside the EU, there are no customs any more. And between Schengen states, there is no immigration control either. All with the big exception of the UK of course :-(

So it's your choice if you want to show your passport in France upon refuelling or later in Germany. Once is enough!

EDDS - Stuttgart

Yes, I was beginning to think that would be the answer - clear once, any country in the EU, and get on my way (with full tanks) to EDNY.

On return, guess I have to 'clear' at a UK customs airfield ? or have them (customs) meet me, by arrangement, at my little airfield (EGCJ) in North England.

Regret no current medical
Was Sandtoft EGCF, North England, United Kingdom

Wow. You seem to be totally unaware of how international GA flying works.

Sorry if you don't like to hear this, but: are you sure you want to fly, as PIC and solo, all the way from the North of England to Friedrichshafen, VFR, in april, through some of the most complicated airspace in Europe? Did you consider taking someone along with experience?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

There are numerous ways to dig out prospective airports for stops or whatever, but nowadays the most productive way is probably

  • get some VFR flight planner program which contains airport data (avgas, customs, etc) - this can be used to find airports in the required general area

  • google for the airport website to get contact details

  • give them a call - German airports in particular are usually good English speakers

If you have a flight planner prog which shows airport contact details, that's a bonus. I use Navbox for that, and it covers all of Europe all the way down to Greece, and makes it very quick to identify airports with avgas and customs.

To return to the UK, and in fact also to depart from the UK, you will probably (depend on the airport category) need to send in the GAR form. But you can use any UK airfield; unlike the rest of Europe you are not limited to "Customs" airports for international flights.

You will need VFR charts of course. You need to be able to plan a route OCAS, but anybody with a PPL can do that.

This rather long trip report was meant to show a fairly complicated VFR trip across Europe. It will give you an idea.

The flying itself is no different to anywhere else, of course.

For notams, just use the UK NATS site. It's good worldwide.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes, I was beginning to think that would be the answer - clear once, any country in the EU, and get on my way.

Just be careful. It's not ANY EU country. It applies only countries that are inside the Schengen treaty area. And even there there are exceptions (Switzerland and Greece come to mind).

Given that you are flying VFR, I'd make an alternative suggestion.

I'd suggest that you clear customs at the first opportunity in France. It may mean an extra stop for you, but you no longer have to worry about having customs/immigration at your next stop. You've now cleared customs into the Schengen Zone.

This means that if the weather isn't so good, then you are free to divert whereever you want, without building customs into your decision making process. If it doesn't look so good ahead, then just land at the nearest suitable airport.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

Wow. You seem to be totally unaware of how international GA flying works.

Everyone is in the begining ;)

Unfortunately most pilots try to learn from their instructors, but the instructors generally have never left their home country in years (because they can't afford to on an instructor salary).

At least the airplane operates the same, and the differences are usually paper work. :) Having an experienced pilot look over your paperwork before departing is almost as good as bringing them along.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

Let's not be harsh. Customs rules in Europe are very messy and were my major worry having come from Australia and latterly trained in the US. In practice it is quite straightforward.

Much harder VFR than IFR but just know where you are, know the airspace and re clearance perhaps wait and see what the weather there is like. If it looks more marginal, then the idea to clear customs early is a good one.

EGTK Oxford

I never had any real problems flying VFR around Europe. None that I can recall.

But I nearly always went to "proper" airports. With the TB20, I never had to stop purely for fuel (I have done just one unplanned fuel stop, caused by a series of hassles in Italy in 2008 or so). The long range meant I could fly out of the UK direct to a Customs airport which was either the ultimate destination, or a decent stopover for 1-2 nights at least.

With less range, one can still do the same, but picking a stop which is not a complete dump (in case you have to stay there, due to bad wx) will need more work.

My tendency would be to fly out of the UK and fly the longest safely possible first leg, obviously to a Customs airport. This gets you out of the UK/Channel weather system, and you are in Schengen.

I don't have enough current knowledge of airports on the way to EDNY to make suggestions (others here can) because a TB20 can fly to EDNY, go around, and fly back to EGKA, but as I said before... find one whose data says it has avgas, Customs if you need Customs, and give them a call to check stuff like any PPR/PNR and opening hours. Always get it straight from the horse's mouth.

If you need any airport charts etc drop me an email. I believe Germany doesn't publish any VFR airport charts in its online AIP - bizzarely!

And get yourself a decent GPS I would have ABSOLUTELY NEVER tried my long trips without a GPS. Too much stress...

Plus current charts of course.

Spread the charts on the floor

and draw the planned route on them, and as you fly you fold up each "used" one and put in out of the way.

Flying alone is not bad because you have the RH seat free for all the junk.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks everybody for your help so far.

I appreciate 'boscomantico's' point at #43, and he's right, but I'm not taking this on lightly. My 'long-haul' Europe is limited, but have done P1 UK - Berlin and back (Turbo Arrow) plus the Dordogne, Southern France (Archer). Both VFR.

Have Garmin 296 GPS of my own.

I'm going to re-acquaint myself with an Arrow non-turbo T-Tail at Sandtoft, on which I did 'difference' training a few years back.

This has the duration to do EGCF (Sandtoft) - EDNY non stop.

It has a Garmin 430, Mode S etc. I've used the 430 many times on an Archer III that my Club (Sherburn) used to have.

It's on the N reg so, for Europe, also have to re-validate my FAA 'plastic card' that 'piggy-backs' on my CAA ticket.

There is a local FAA Instructor who will do this with me once I've re-checked on the Arrow.

The only gray area, ATPIT, is nobody seems to know if it has the German mandatory 'noise certificate'.

I have all but Jeppesen ED6 charts (but OOD) to hand, but will be buying latest of all that's required.

Still planning and hope you can put-up with anymore, what might seem, basic questions.

Regret no current medical
Was Sandtoft EGCF, North England, United Kingdom

Noise certs are a bit of a mystery.

I get asked for them about 1/3 of the time, and never have one on me (I have several different ones in the luggage compartment) so presumably on those occassions get ripped off some extra €. I recall paying about €30 extra at Grenchen, years ago, because I didn't have one. The people at airports seem to have a "magic book" which tells them how much noise your plane makes and they look it up in there; this happened at Stuttgart last year.

In short, I don't think not having one gets you arrested and fined the minimum German fine of €500000. But you might pay a bit extra.

Otherwise it sounds like you know all the rest just fine.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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