That’s very useful – thanks.
So nothing we can do about it, other than to put a statement on the website that airmail is risky 
Peter wrote:
@lionel may be able to explain it better.
No expertise in the specifics of the NI part of the EU-UK agreement.
Peter wrote:
Customs on the mainland are already doing all kinds of weird irritating and (for B2B) illegal stuff e.g.
No, that’s not Customs, and (for the Auslagepauschale) regrettably AFAIK not clearly illegal. That’s DHL German Post, the transporter. They do a customs declaration, prepay the import VAT and charge a service fee for that work. They may have done a sloppy work, they may have done it erroneously, that’s another matter, and a long-standing problem with third countries, that is much much older than Brexit. E.g. packages coming from the USA to Luxembourg clearly labelled “baby clothes”, they will make a “non-baby clothes” customs declaration, prepay the wrong rate of VAT and strong-arm you into reimbursing them that wrong amount. Although I admit the Luxembourg post has been getting better at that lately. If the destination looks like a business name, they actually write/email/phone you to ask for your VAT number, and they don’t prepay the VAT, you self-declare it. (I don’t know if Germany allows for this self-declaration or requires prepayment at import + claim back; it varies between EU Member States.)
Peter wrote:
We get this on roughly 10% of airmail packages. (…) It does not happen with courier shipments, presumably because the Customs people know perfectly aware that somebody at (say) DHL will kick up a stink and report them higher up.
I think that’s just because courier shipments are more expensive, they get better customs relations staff at the courier company than postal parcels. Again, this is not Custom’s doing, Customs just applies the customs declaration done by the transporter, and challenge/check it if they suspect fraud or error. That’s it.
So they are paying an extra load of money for shipping…
Without naming names – major UK aviation retailers
That is pretty amazing. Surely it must create scope for a bit of arbitrage? Ship goods from Great Britain to NI then ship them under EU regs from there to the EU?
Yes – as per the other thread link I posted. Without getting into politics, this was a big problem in the negotiations. And there still are problems now although a) I don’t follow the news closely and b) don’t understand it anyway @dublinpilot or @lionel may be able to explain it better.
N.I. has been an avenue for various exploits over the years. I vagely recall some gangs shipping millions of nonexistent mobile phones backwards and forwards although this does not mention N.I.
You can be sure that Customs in N.I. will be looking out for obvious signs. Maybe there is a separate agreement re min time in N.I before re-export.
Customs on the mainland are already doing all kinds of weird irritating and (for B2B) illegal stuff e.g.
We get this on roughly 10% of airmail packages. If it was much more I would remove the airmail option from the shop, but that would kill sales of all lower value items. It does not happen with courier shipments, presumably because the Customs people know perfectly aware that somebody at (say) DHL will kick up a stink and report them higher up. They would not dare do it on parcels from the US. That 10% represents really angry customers; that €10.32 one went straight for a paypal refund and sent us a somewhat filthy email
It is possible that in some cases the Customs are doing a classification of recipients as “retail” if it isn’t an obvious business name (e.g. a sole trader) even if the product is obviously not retail. This is something to watch out for. I have just looked at one case and it was like that, but others were clearly businesses. But maybe calling yourself “Johann Müller Systeme” rather than “Johann Müller” might help.
I don’t know if the same issue exists EU → UK. We have the £39-£135 system but I am not sure this is being actually operated; it is obviously unworkable.
Not that amazing – and many companies are doing just that
Which ones?
Not that amazing – and many companies are doing just that
That is pretty amazing. Surely it must create scope for a bit of arbitrage? Ship goods from Great Britain to NI then ship them under EU regs from there to the EU?
This Northern Ireland company confirms some previous discussions:
This is applicable. It is one of those areas which Brussels hopes will not become a big thing.
If such a VAT route ever came to exist, it would inevitably be done like the Danish zero VAT route i.e. some enterprising individual sets himself up like that Danish lawyer did and milks it for all he can get (like that Danish lawyer did), setting up his fee at the highest possible level at which people still get a saving I was offered the Danish route in 2002 but could not be bothered for the relatively small net saving, and I thought it smelt dodgy. And sure enough then there was this which as a risk cannot ever totally go away, in any modern tax system.
The NI business is a very handy club
for beating the UK on the head with It’s not going to get solved anytime soon.
Peter wrote:
If it is connected then that provides a route, doesn’t it?
While the details are super difficult what is sure is that this is exactly the kind of thing the EU officials do not want and will change the rules once they learn about it ;-) This is the core of all the issues. After all nobody cares about the few inhabitants of N Ireland purchasing their groceries both sides to get along. But once their business becomes to simply shift large amounts of stuff from one system into the other exploiting their special status on both ends…
sedatedokc wrote:
If anyone has any knowledge if selling a privately owned (VAT paid) plane form Norway / Iceland if one is “stuck” in their local country or not (unless they are willing to lose their entire 25% VAT “investment”) that would be welcome insight.
Better ask an expert but I assume you are stuck in the country. When I deal with customers in Norway the EU seems to treat them VAT wise like any other bit of the world outside the EU customs union. But they do not seem to charge duty or go on about different technical norms etc. on top of VAT because of the special status. So the smaller the country the more incentive you probably have to hold the plane in a company if you ever plan to resell.
