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What to worry about in buying a used plane?

AdamFrisch wrote:

Here in the US there’s a big pilot shortage, as we know. But there’s also a very big A&P shortage. The airlines and bigger maintenance facilities are offering starting pay for new mechanics in the $55K+ region and very quickly these guys can see $80-90K and a full benefit package.

I understand AA is hiring 200 or more A&Ps at the moment. One of their mechanics mentioned something about his union currently negotiating $50/HR pay, don’t know at what level of experience that would apply. Of course in some urban areas that is not ‘getting rich quick’ wages, but in other areas it would support a family well.

By my observation, A&Ps working on US hobby planes are also doing it as a paid hobby themselves, either literally or in the sense that they could make substantially better money turning wrenches on Toyotas. The better ones in terms of piston engined GA seem to drift slowly into something more lucrative as they age (whatever it may be) while keeping their hand in on their own planes, planes they like, planes owned by friends etc.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 28 Jan 00:24

Here in the US there’s a big pilot shortage, as we know. But there’s also a very big A&P shortage. The airlines and bigger maintenance facilities are offering starting pay for new mechanics in the $55K+ region and very quickly these guys can see $80-90K and a full benefit package. That’s very hard for the little mom-adn-pop GA maintenance shops to compete with. One of the facilities I used said he was so backlogged with annuals but just couldn’t find any mechanics to hire (as the airlines snapped them all up). Even worse, many of his longtime mechanics had recently left for them too.

A small facility can’t really compete with those salaries. I actually think they need to increase their hourly rate a bit. Here I tend to pay between $100-135/hr. As much as I don’t want to pay more than necessary, if it means that GA shops can retain a quality workforce, it’s a price I’m willing to pay.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 27 Jan 22:42

The RAF has a policy of actively discouraging its engineering staff from getting civilian qualifications untill immediately before discharge from the RAF for fear they will jump ship to a much better paid job that does not carry the joys of the secondary duty that involves wandering around the base at the dead of night carrying a rifle.

The other thing I have found with ex-RAF guys is they don’t have much in the way of deep repair and heavy maintenance experience as the RAF now puts most of this work out to civilian companies. The result is if you take on an ex-RAF guy you can expect it will take some time before he is fully up to speed.

It seems difficult for guys leaving the RAF engineering side to qualify as civilian light aircraft mechanics. Retraining doesn’t seem to be available.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

This is digressing more and more but probably the main problem with GA maintenance is that most companies have such a variable reputation (and deservedly so) that the bulk of owners at any airfield fly away for maintenance. So a bug chunk of the “catchment area” is wasted. So the typical maint company might be looking after say just 50 planes, plus odd bits. 50 planes will bring you of the order of 300k/year which is enough for the owner to draw say 70k (a hardly amazing amount for the headaches of running a business; it is what a middle manager at some insurance company is on, and 300k would be more appropriate) plus a minimum wage for the staff.

If companies made their catchment area work better they would achieve a lot more.

Against that you have a lot of owners who are really tight, especially schools…

Back to overhauls, you can see a 2x difference in quotes. However the lower end of that will likely be a crook job. One company, central Europe, just changes the cylinders, repaints the crankcase, and prints off the EASA-1.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Most of the B1/B2 licenced guys will move to the commercial side where pay tend to be really good but work is painful (you have to deal with captains on the ramp or management in base), so for GA, you are left with few skilled guys and the rest, then you spend money on extremes tasks: do nothing just papers or do a big engine overhaul…

Not sure when a GA B3/ELA licence is comming to life? But as far as I know, there are not that many who get a Part66 B1/B3 paper “for GA fun”, unlike those on pilot side who find it fun to get a PPL/CPL/ATPL in GA with no plans to work for airliners!

Last Edited by Ibra at 27 Jan 19:22
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

If you look at theproce of an engine overhaul in the UK you will probably find a difference of between £5&7k for the same job.

This is the cost difference between a skilled engine technician and a grease monkey.

Peter wrote:

It is true in the UK… FWIW. For some reason GA mechanic pay is low. I think most of them get under 20k.

Quite easy to calculate backwards. What is your accepted mechanics hourly price you are willing to pay? Say you would pay £80 per billed working hour. Say you accept the business owner needs about 30% uplift to be able to provide a stable employees contract and make money in return for taking the personal risk of running a business and taking responsibility for their employees. £80 go down to £62. Running a sustainable GA mechanics shop usually requires selling price to salary ratio of 4. £62 go down to £16. A workers year has about 1,800 working hours at 100 percent. Now the shop does follow work-life balance and calculates 75 percent of the working power to be billable. 1,800 working hours go down to 1,350 billable hours. 1,350 billable hours at £16 do £21,600 yearly salary. 20k sounds plausible and higher it will go only if the you customer pays more. We are talking leisure business, not necessary for living in the end. Am I correct?
Last Edited by at 27 Jan 12:40

It is true in the UK… FWIW. For some reason GA mechanic pay is low. I think most of them get under 20k.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

A lot less than a guy working on Mercs or BMWs

I suspect those guys get peanuts, and a big chunk of the money you pay over the cost of parts goes to the stealership.
LKTB->EGBJ, United Kingdom
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