This new PA28 thread made me wonder about this.
I don’t see an obvious reason for a private owner to buy a new PA28. There are so many other options on the used market which are much better and cost no more. Presumably they appeal to schools, because they are common, easy to fix, not easy to break, and hard to criticise.
I do see a private owner buying a new Cessna, 172 or 182, for short field or “utility” operations.
Are there other factors involved?
No. And I can’t see why a school would buy a new Piper or Cessna either.
Pick up a 1980’s cadet or warrior for 40 grand. Spend a further 40 grand on a avionics, paint, upholstery, etc.
You would have spent 120 grand less than a new aircraft and the running costs would be no different with the 1980’s aircraft than the new one.
They can’t even run on mogas with 10% ethanol.
I honestly think Cessna/Piper have no idea about mum and pop GA these days.
I don’t think Piper or Cessna take the private SEP market much into consideration at all. It’s FTOs and utility applications (C206). Leaving home/kit/LSA’s etc aside for the moment, the private market has gone Cirrus at the top end and used a/c for anything below.
@172driver has nailed it. Schools doing training under contract can justify buying new planes for simplicity and uniformity of fleet maintenance. For individual owners, typical utilization is not high or urgent and the fleet size is one.
Consider also that Piper (or Cessna) will give massive discounts to schools. Many years ago I was at one school which was offered about 30% off list for 3 x C172. These are confidential, of course.
I wouldn’t. If I had 270kUSD to burn (I don’t) I’d get a used SR22. Not a new PA28-100 trainer.
But I get why the big schools buy these. On top of all the reasons mentioned above, they look new and for some people in an integrated ATPL it seems to matter. They could also get a 30 year old one and fully refurbish it, but why bother? We’ve done this to both our club planes recently, it’s a lot of hassle and paperwork. Just get a new one, with garantee, and pass the rest of the bill along to the students. As long as they pay up it’s all good, everybody is screaming “Pilot shortage” after all, on the way to the A320 TR it’s pocket change.
Bathman wrote:
I honestly think Cessna/Piper have no idea about mum and pop GA these daysI disagree, Cessna and Piper (and everybody else) are all too aware that mum and pop don’t buy new planes because again why would you? There are so many good used planes on the market for 100-150k max, and if you can afford a 700-900k plane you go Cirrus/Bo/M20U/TTX. Between those two price points (400k-ish), there is no market for new private planes.
Bathman wrote:
No. And I can’t see why a school would buy a new Piper or Cessna either.Pick up a 1980’s cadet or warrior for 40 grand. Spend a further 40 grand on a avionics, paint, upholstery, etc.
The big integrated schools want new aircraft with glass panels. That is what their largely airline-bound customers want, as do their parents who are paying for it.
Peter wrote:
Consider also that Piper (or Cessna) will give massive discounts to schools.
Because they probably rationalize a lower liability with their aircraft commercially maintained, and operated in a more regulated environment. A private sale could put the airplane into a private and uncontrolled operating environment – the highest liability situation.
JasonC wrote:
The big integrated schools want new aircraft with glass panels
Yes. And, schools want predictable operating costs – new planes under warranty, and manufacturers accountable for AD type situations keep costs low. A manufacturer will go to extra effort to support a big client’s fleet, rather than legacy aircraft out in the private world. Years back I was requested to approve damage limits for hail damage to a PA-28-161. Piper offered zero support nor tolerance for hail damage on that model. Interestingly, my client had already dug up a Piper Service Bulletin which allowed some hail damage on a PA-28-201R and PA-44, which have most skins in common with the -161. I opine that Piper responded to the needs of a large fleet operator of those two models only, as that operator had suffered an “event” to their fleet. Money talks, so buying new planes is the money!
Pilot_DAR wrote:
Because they probably rationalize a lower liability with their aircraft commercially maintained, and operated in a more regulated environment. A private sale could put the airplane into a private and uncontrolled operating environment – the highest liability situation.
You think?
I’d have said that with new SEP sales being so low, a school looking to buy multiple aircraft at once has a fair amount of buying power. Thus Piper or Cessna will discount heavily to try and stop that potential 3-10 units of sale going to the other lot.
You see the same in the airliner market in that anyone placing a substantial order gets a big discount from either Airbus or Boeing to choose them over the other lot.
The difference is how many aeroplanes constitutes a significant order in those two markets.
