At the end of the day we have to actually use our common sense and not only interpret the POH the worst possible way or the best possible way.
Think about the realities of your load (in the wing or in the fuselage? ) think about the envelope of your cg and determine the effects on the characteristics.
As has been said before: Many performance figures are compromised way way way more by temperature, hard grass VS soft grass etc and many very cautious people don’t even notice it as it isn’t described in the POH.
As an adult and especially as a pilot who has to determine many situations within split seconds about their effects on the current safety situation one needs to do better than to just quote POH-lines, but make educated guesses about the actual realities. That is what keeps you safe and little else.
About the point of insurance not paying if overweight even if there is no causality to the accident: the insurance can write many many things into their contracts, but only legislature is law, nothing else. No causality(if in fact proven) means no way out for the insurance. Of course they tell you otherwise, but your law firm should know better. It could get a little messy at court, but that’s true for most meetings with judges that involve enough money or motivation.
Silvaire wrote:
In the US
A „does your answer correspond to FAA or EASA jurisdiction“ selectable button would be a nice feature for the forum.
Noe wrote:
I just had a friend friend of mine check out a colleague of his newly aquired SEP in the US. The insurer had required 2h with an instructor. The funny thing is that they didn’t specify the instructor requirements, and my friend had zero hours on type in the last 5 years, and probably single digits in his entire flying career
The instructor who checked me out for insurance purposes in my plane had exactly zero hours in type, ever, and AIUI no instructor in North America had any more. It is likely that no FAA rated instructor anywhere had time in type… so I flew as a highly interested passenger with a very experienced test pilot friend (who also had no time in type, but who as a non-owner was strangely not subject to the requirement) before the instructor and I flew together with me as PIC. The instructor enjoyed learning the plane and I was happy to show it to him – by then I’d already learned to fly it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Also a ramp checker will want to see a wnb calculation carrying the current date and time.
Where is the regulation with a requirement for having the “current date and time” on the w&b sheet?
ASW22 wrote:
About the point of insurance not paying if overweight even if there is no causality to the accident: the insurance can write many many things into their contracts, but only legislature is law, nothing else. No causality(if in fact proven) means no way out for the insurance. Of course they tell you otherwise, but your law firm should know better. It could get a little messy at court, but that’s true for most meetings with judges that involve enough money or motivation.
That just isn’t true as a legal statement. In practice perhaps.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Where is the regulation with a requirement for having the “current date and time” on the w&b sheet?
I don’t believe under Part-NCO you need an actual calc but the means to do one ie the W&B form. If they are concerned they can always do their own to see if you are within the W&B limitations.
Qalupalik wrote:
Here’s the inflight entertainment video for the passengers. Normalisation of Deviance by former NASA astronaut Col Mike Mullane in 4 parts (YouTube link).
I had the impression it has more to do with “organisational complexity” than cutting short, R. Feynmann Rogers commission testimony
A clip that puts a bit of a laugh at this subject…
Even though this is just a movie, and I am not sure if the Aerostar could handle 1500 lbs overweight but I know from a friend in Colombia that this was and is very, very real…
An example that did not go well is the aerosucre B727 accident, available on YouTube as well.
But of course we are just talking about runway length in these two cases.
Urs, your useful load estimate of fourseaters is wrong. I once listed a couple of aircraft:
Ich hatte mal in einem anderen Zusammenhang unter Anderem diese Daten erhoben, bei Kraftstoff für eine Flugstunde incl. 30 Minuten Reserve ergibt sich:
Muster Zuladung [kg] Quelle Sitzplätze Kraftstoff [kg] Zuladung pro Sitzplatz [kg]
Motorflugzeuge
C172b 350 Wägebericht 4 32,4 79,4
LA4-200 360 Wägebericht 4 40 80
SF23A1 238 Wägebericht 2 20 108
DR250-160 388 Wägebericht 4 35 88,25
MS894A 464 Wägebericht 4 35 107,25
F150M 241 Wägebericht 2 20 110,5
MS880B 279 Wägebericht 3 20 vorne: 89,5 kg / hinten: 80 kg*
MS883 264,9 Wägebericht 3 24 80
BO208C 244 Wägebericht 2 20 112
SD4 LSA 231 Wägebericht 2 18 106,35
C33C 541,5 BFU 4 65 119,125
BO207 427 BFU 4 38 97,25
C172P 385 BFU 4 35 87,5
C172P 341 BFU 4 35 76,5
DR400/180R 372 BFU 4 35 84,25
TB20 472 BFU 4 54 104,5
DA20 217 BFU 2 16 100,5
SC01B 206 BFU 2 35 85,5
DO27A1 731 BFU 6 80 108,5
C182Q 500 BFU 4 54 111,5
TB10 398 BFU 4 38 90
Bücker 131 234 BFU 2 38 98
AT01 247 BFU 2 18 114,5
V35B 500 BFU 4 65 108,75
PA28-161 383,8 BFU 4 35 87,2
DR400/180R 363,4 BFU 4 38 81,35
PA28-181 410,9 BFU 4 38 93,225
SR22 533 BFU 4 65 117
F182Q 479 BFU 4 54 106,25
WA54 440 BFU 4 38 100,5
SR22 478 BFU 4 65 103,25
PA28-181 414,1 BFU 4 38 94,025
C152 260 BFU 2 22 119
C172D 383 BFU 4 35 87
SR22 429 BFU 4 65 91
F172M 381 BFU 4 35 86,5
DR400/180 455,6 BFU 4 38 104,375
Amateurbau
BX-2 221,5 BFU 2 20 100,75
Renegade Spirit 208,6 BFU 2 30 89,3
ST-87 271,7 BFU 2 20 125,85
P180S 245 BFU 2 20 112,5
Europa XS 193,4 BFU 2 18 87,7
Cozy III 255 BFU 2 20 117,5
Breezer 227 BFU 2 20 103,5
Motorsegler
SF25C 206 BFU 2 16 95
HK36R 195 BFU 2 16 89,5
RF4D 98,6 BFU 1 10 88,6
G109B 189,5 BFU 2 16 87,25
3-Achs UL
C42 179,9 Tomas Jakobs 2 16 81,95
FK9MK3 172,5 BFU 2 16 78,25
WT9 169,5 BFU 2 18 75,75
FK14B 156,5 BFU 2 16 70,25
CTSW 138,8 BFU 2 18 60,4
UW9 141 BFU 2 16 62,5
FA01 SL 172,5 BFU 2 18 77,25
EV97 2000R 153,6 BFU 2 18 67,8
Uli 95,5 BFU 1 10 85,5
Breezer 146,6 BFU 2 18 64,3
D4 (UL) 135 BFU 2 16 59,5
C42 182,5 BFU 2 16 83,25
C42B 180,7 BFU 2 16 81,35
Storch 582 201 BFU 2 20 90,5
Remos GX 139,4 BFU 2 18 60,7
CT2K 145,2 BFU 2 18 63,6
C42 184,5 BFU 2 16 84,25
CTSW 140,8 BFU 2 18 61,4
C42C 186,5 BFU 2 16 85,25
S6 II 145 BFU 2 16 64,5
MCR-ULC 168,5 BFU 2 18 75,25
KR030 153,7 BFU 2 18 67,85
TL3000 147 BFU 2 18 64,5
EV97SL 165 BFU 2 16 74,5
Virus SW100 164,5 BFU 2 18 73,25
FK14B2 159,6 BFU 2 18 70,8
Sunwheel 120 BFU 2 16 52
WT01 137,5 BFU 2 18 59,75
S 6 II 163 BFU 2 16 73,5
Skywalker II 162,5 BFU 2 18 72,25
EV97 160,3 BFU 2 18 71,15
FP 202 123,6 BFU 1 15 108,6
C22 166,6 BFU 2 16 75,3
Remos GX 142,7 BFU 2 18 62,35
KP-2U 114 BFU 2 16 49
TL96 133,3 BFU 2 16 58,65
Albatross 133 BFU 2 15 59
C22 199,2 BFU 2 16 91,6
EV97 161,6 BFU 2 18 71,8
EV97 168,4 BFU 2 18 75,2
Tragschrauber UL
G 2-4 RT 148 BFU 2 18 65
G 2-4 R 214 BFU 2 18 98
MTO Sport 225 BFU 2 18 103,5
Cavalon 192 BFU 2 18 87
MTO3 195 BFU 2 18 88,5
*Rückbank bis max. 80 kg zugelassen
