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Liability to pilots and aircrew (AVN73)

Hi,

I would like to get your thoughts on whether you think AVN73 (http://www.iuaclauses.co.uk/site/cms/contentDocumentView.asp?chapter=7&category=49) should be included in CSL insurance in order to cover the following two scenarios:

  • I fly with a safety pilot to fly in simulated IMC to renew my FAA IR currency, at which point the safety pilot is no longer a passenger but becomes required aircrew.
  • Any flight with an instructor e.g. for a flight review, IPC etc. Presumably, the FI also becomes required aircrew for the purpose of that flight then.

Standard insurance clauses exclude liability to aircrew and inclusion of AVN73 (text inserted at the bottom) would specifically include that.

Questions:

  1. Am I correct that assuming the other pilot that acts as required aircrew decides to bring a claim against me that I would not be covered? Presumably, in cases where a pilot just flies with me (let’s say a friend) in a non-required aircrew capacity, the pilot is considered a passenger?
  2. Do you think that insurance cover for the two scenarios above (and other possible scenarios) should therefore be included?
  3. Will AVN73 be sufficient to cover the scenarios above?

Am I overthinking this point as the insurance agent was surprised when I asked this question as he said it would normally apply only to companies/individuals that hire professional aircrew or in the case of aircraft with minimum required crew of 2?

AVN73 clause wording is as follows:

LIABILITY TO PILOTS AND CREW CLAUSE
It is understood and agreed that notwithstanding any exclusion specifically relating to pilots and operational crew in the Section of this Policy covering the liability of the Insured to passengers, such coverage shall extend to include the liability of the Insured to the pilots and operational crew of the insured Aircraft, but excluding liability required to be insured under the terms of any employers’ liability or workman’s compensation legislation or any similar legislation.
Last Edited by wbardorf at 24 Oct 10:39
EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

I am no insurance expert but my view is that in a single crew aircraft everybody except the PIC is a passenger.

Well, there is the matter of this nasty aspect but – in Europe at least – that seems to be invoked so rarely (does anyone know of an actual case?) that it would take an unusual situation, probably involving the death of all “witnesses” except the one person who stands to make money out of pretending it was an instructional flight.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Our aircraft insurance covers Group members, and an Instructor giving training to a Group member. As the Group member logs as “Pu/t” the Instructor is P1 and a Crew Member.
(I always have my biennial flight-with-an-instructor in a school aircraft, as I’m not happy with the situation where he is much less familiar than me with the aircraft.)

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Thanks, Maoraigh. My issue is not that the insurance is not effective when flying with a safety pilot or instructor, however that in the standard case the liability to other aircrew is not covered.

  • If I fly with a non-pilot friend who is a passenger, liability to the friend is covered
  • If I fly with a pilot friend who is not required aircrew and thus a real passenger, liability to the friend should be covered as well
  • If the pilot friend flies the aircraft and is a named pilot, the insurance should also be effective
  • If I fly with a pilot friend who is acting as a safety pilot (e.g. for flight in simulated IMC) and is thus required aircrew, I am assuming that coverage for my liability to him/her is excluded

Replace “pilot friend” with “instructor” or “any other pilot” and the same should apply.

Standard AVN1C wording is

So if for some reason the pilot friend ceased to be a friend and decided to make claims against me in an accident (e.g. because I disregarded his/her instructions as safety pilot), then presumably I would have an uncovered liability.

Am I overthinking this?

Last Edited by wbardorf at 26 Oct 00:27
EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

am no insurance expert but my view is that in a single crew aircraft everybody except the PIC is a passenger.

In the US, the safety pilot during simulated IFR is PIC, as is the pilot flying the airplane. It’s one of the odd FAA rules that allow two pilots to be PIC concurrently in a single-crew airplane.

172driver wrote:

In the US, the safety pilot during simulated IFR is PIC, as is the pilot flying the airplane. It’s one of the odd FAA rules that allow two pilots to be PIC concurrently in a single-crew airplane.

I know the FAA in some cases allow two people to log PIC time, but surely only one of them actually is the PIC?

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 26 Oct 02:56
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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