Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Is the Jetprop the right plane for my mission? (and other high performance types)

Based on matching your criteria to the letter, you need a P210 at the bottom end or PC12 at the top.

United Kingdom

A well handled Jetprop is certainly capable of short field ops such as the mission you have, but… and it’s a large but, you would be operating at the extreme edge of the safety envelope with almost no margin for error. Each landing would need to be pretty much perfect, and any degradation in the surface of the runway due to water or other adverse contamination does limit the viability of using it on a reliable basis. Taking off is much less of an issue.

I often operate from a well maintained 600M grass strip under my own imposed hard weight and weather limits which sometimes means modifying the mission to suit the conditions. On occasion if I am heavy or there is a significant tailwind (it is a one way strip) I will stop at an intermediate airport to either offload/pick up passengers, or wait out the weather. I rarely takeoff full fuel, although I have never found the takeoff roll to be over half the runway length even when the surface was a little water logged.

In addition I have over 2,500 hours in my Jetprop which helps handling it at those extremes. Personally I would not have been comfortable operating from short grass strips without a lot of airframe experience and regular currency. Pre-Covid I was logging around 170 hours annually. The aircraft although a joy to fly, can be a handful at times.

Finally… operating from a rough strip is hard on the airframe, especially the landing gear and propeller. Nothing too excessive but you will be filing propeller blades (mine is an aluminum propeller) and replacing various landing gear bushings more regularly than normal.

Having said all that, I thoroughly enjoy the ability to operate under such conditions. The pleasure of operating at such extreme limits is a big adrenaline rush that leaves a grin on my face long after the engine spools down.

E

eal
Lovin' it
VTCY VTCC VTBD

Thanks for everyone’s input.

Seems the PA46 is not the right fit.

Grass capability is more for my destinations rather than my home base. That means more uncertainty re runway conditions, which based on your comments rules out PA46, incl jetprop.

Coming from a Cirrus, I don’t want to depend on just a piston engine. So without chute I would like to have the turbine reliability.

PC12 is out of budget for sure. Also have a feeling that the weight makes it difficult to access many of the smaller grass strips?

I was briefly considering the MU2 and it is somewhat of a dream, but realistically I think it is too much plane for me to handle. I don’t fly enough. Other twins might be more forgiving but then the MTOW issue comes up again.

Silver Eagle sounds almost like the only option now. I’m mostly concerned if there is enough of a community/maintenance experience here in Europe to reliably keep it running/well maintained. And I read about smell of burned JetA in the cabin being an issue, that would be total turn-off for me.

Maybe I need to start looking into helicopters :)

Switzerland

In fact, what you are looking for (turbine, pressurization, decent cruise speed, short/grass field capability, moderate capex and opex) does not exist. If it did, most of us here in Europe would have it. You have to make compromises one way or the other. For me, the early SR22s come close to it.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

What cruise speed are you looking for, desired and absolute minimum ?
Is pressurization an absolute must for you ?

LFOU, France

>>In fact, what you are looking for (turbine, pressurization, decent cruise speed, short/grass field capability, moderate capex and opex) does not exist. If it did, most of us here in Europe would have it. You have to make compromises one way or the other. For me, the early SR22s come close to it.

I think on paper at least, the Silver Eagle comes close to what I have in mind. Whether it is practical to operate in Europe is something I am trying to figure out now.

SR22 is my current ride, but grass and short field are weaknesses, as well as lack of pressurization.

>>What cruise speed are you looking for, desired and absolute minimum ?
Minimum 160kts, desired >200kts

>>Is pressurization an absolute must for you ?
Yes, because oxygen & steep descents with a young family are just a pain.

If I would I would drop the pressurization requirement and put bigger wheels on a SR22, maybe that would do the trick. Probably not possible?! Turbine Bonanza would also be an option then.

Switzerland

HBadger wrote:

Turbine Bonanza would also be an option then.

Not enough range. And I don’t see the point in no pressurized turbine plane, especially for Europe touring.

Last Edited by Emir at 10 Jan 12:23
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Turbine Bonnies seem exotic and vintage. Maybe the Daher Kodiak is an option, a relatively modern design incorporating a turbine from the start. Turbine reliability will come at a fuel penalty in a non pressurized plane though.

always learning
LO__, Austria

I operate a Silver Eagle. The main limitations:

  • The plane is the absolute entry level in pressurisation; only 3.4 psi differential.
    • Meaning at FL200, your cabin is at 10 000 ft.
    • Frankly, unless I fly around FL180 or below, I use supplemental oxygen.
    • if you hope to “fly it like a pressurised turbine” (that is, fast descents) and also be kind on your kid’s ears, forget about it. Unless you fly around FL160 or below, and don’t use the full differential (e.g. keeping the cabin at 9000 feet at FL160 instead of the lower achievable maximum). Basically, maintaining full differential needs close to cruise power. If you are flying high, and start anything else than a very gently descent, you’ll hit the Vmo limit and you’ll have to reduce power. Your cabin altitude will go up (ouch the ears), then start descending at the same speed as the plane (ouch the ears); if you don’t get a continuous descent but have to level off, you’ll put cruise power again, and the cabin will brutally descend again (if it is set for much lower than the current state) (ouch the ears again). If you really want to fly “high” and also be gentle on the ears, you’ll have to plan your descents like in an unpressurised piston (500 ft/min).
  • (Especially with the wingtip tanks) you’ll find yourself MTOW-challenged. I’m a rather big bloke (in the 100 kg) and my rule of thumb is “all fuelled up I’m alone; remove 1h of fuel per adult”. With the wingtip tanks, the maximum endurance exceeds 7h (high altitude cruise; flying lower it is roughly 6h), so it is a workable two-person plane. Loosing weight took pressure off my MTOW planning, but I’ve regained some now. I believe most of the fleet has one seat removed, because it ain’t useful.
  • If you fill up on fuel, you don’t have a baggage compartment. You take your luggage with you in the cabin.
  • Although the Silver Eagle will in practice easily use far shorter runways than the piston version, the POH repeats the piston numbers with the “meets or exceeds” wording. So purely legally on paper, runways of less than 900 m needs checking and planning. In practice, with short field technique, I don’t think I’ve used more than a third (or even a quarter) of a 600 m hard (not grass) strip landing and more than half taking off.

OTOH, operating costs are, AFAIK, far lower than any other turbine plane. I love it. With the wingtip tanks, it brought me (with tailwind over the Iberian Peninsula) from Almeria to Luxembourg and (nil wind, no headwind) from Luxembourg to Sofia and from Sofia to Israel. OTOH, a hard landing with wingtip tanks will bend the wings…

I’ve never flown a piston P210, but my hangar neighbour does. He says performance far exceeds the piston version.

Last Edited by lionel at 10 Jan 13:04
ELLX

About the jet fuel smell, yes. Undeniably yes. OTOH:

  • partially I’ve just gotten used to it
  • partially I became very, very, very cautious not to take any jet fuel inside the cabin: don’t walk on a Jet fuel stain on the ground (or change shoes), put any rag or gloves with even a minimal amount of jet fuel on it in the baggage compartment, change (and keep spares) for any clothing that has even a minimal amount of contamination, etc.
    • you have to be prepared that any slip on that discipline will give you a smelly cabin for several flights.
  • partially I combat the odour: car-style deodoriser, car-style “HEPA air filter”.

I must say that now I’m happy with it; the smell, if any, is very faint. People (even those I hug) stopped telling me I smell like “airplane” (and not because they became accustomed to it).

Last Edited by lionel at 10 Jan 13:12
ELLX
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top