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Is the Jetprop the right plane for my mission? (and other high performance types)

Brilliant informative posts by Antonio!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Most 210’s that are listed as FIKI have vertical tail deice and heated stall warner. Possibly a requirement for 2nd alternator (I’m not clear on that bit)
The non FIKI ones usually just have main wings and horizontal stab. Normally they all have hot-prop.
I intend (non FIKI) to still plan for full Ice-avoidance but if I get that wrong, I have some additional assistance while working on the exit strategy (prop, main, tail.)
2 adults + 2 children + medium luggage should be nicely below MAUW so a reasonable amount of excess power is available to include in the exit strategy and adds to the margin slightly, but avoidance is better than resolution, and you already know that.

United Kingdom

HBadger wrote:

I am contemplating whether I can drop the turbine requirement for the P210, but then I would want to have a STOL mod (e.g. Robertson). Lower stall speed = increased safety margin in an engine out scenario. But if STOL, then no FIKI. On the other hand, as was discussed in a different thread some time ago, there is no FIKI concept in Europe, so as long as there is functional de-ice capability, it should be fine? Apparently there are de-iced Robertson STOL P210.

For me, FIKI would be hands down the thing I’d choose. In the European weather, FIKI means reliability and safety. With the levels the P210 operates, Ice is an issue.

As for STOL, the regular 210 with reasonable weights has pretty good performance already, so the STOL kit is really something I would think you can do without. The regular 210 can do LSPV and other such airfields just fine, with a bit less weight than the STOL one, but then the question is, how many times would you operate out of a field like this on high weight.

As for crash worthyness remember the C210 which came down (fuel exhaustion) on the approach to ZRH? The cell is quite strong this way or the other. I doubt that a few knots less stall would change a lot there. The P210 with FIKI ticks most of the boxes apart from turbine and if you want that, then there is the silver eagle.

Where are you based anyway, looks like we are almost neighbours?

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

FIKI in singles give me pause. They’re marginal at best, have no redundancy and the pumps are high stress items that likely break more often. On my Aerostar the wet air pumps that ran all gyros and the de-icing stuff was the item that broke the most.

Adam,

you know, if we were in the US, I’d agree with you. In Europe such airplanes are simply not financially viable, due to lots of red tape and primarily due to cost. Neither Aerostar, nor a twin turboprop, lest one resides within the upper 2% of the population. Even then they do not make economical sense.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

No, I was thinking more like the previously mentioned P337. Then you have redundancy in de-icing at least. I mean icing is no fun in any aircraft at all, so best avoided anyway.

Is the Extra 500 a good fit for this? Very few hit the market, example here:

https://www.ataviation.co.uk/product/extra-ea-500-turboprop-d-fbrs-for-sale-at-at-aviation/

This aircraft has high turbine time and is the highest time airframe in the E400-500 market – as it has been criss-crossing Europe commercially.

The ad is significantly incorrect – these aircraft are not FIKI certified despite having de-ice boots (not TKS!) and heated prop.

Real world climb and cruise performance is no better than the piston powered version.
- FL180: 190-200 KTAS
- Climb to FL180 around 18-20 min
- Poor climb rate above FL150, very bad above FL200.
Taking off with a light load from 500 meters should be doable with 450 HP, but I have no first hand experience.
Extra used to claim that grass ops are ok, but I do not take my (400) to grass strips, so I don’t know.

The cabin and cockpit of the E500 are just amazing, pressurization perfect (5.5 psi, automatic) and noise levels low.
This is in a class of its own, more like a small biz jet.

Note: no IFR certification if you move it to N-reg.

LSGG, LFEY, Switzerland

Thanks for the interesting posts.
I don’t have many P46T hours in my logbook, but I noticed that the cabin temperature is very “fresh” above FL220 to 280. The heat output seems to be moderate with Mass Flow Control on NORM position. What are your experiences with this, or compared to the other models discussed here?

Last Edited by HB-JAN at 15 Apr 13:06
Switzerland

Flyingfish wrote:

Is the Extra 500 a good fit for this? Very few hit the market, example here:

https://www.ataviation.co.uk/product/extra-ea-500-turboprop-d-fbrs-for-sale-at-at-aviation/

This aircraft has high turbine time and is the highest time airframe in the E400-500 market – as it has been criss-crossing Europe commercially.

The ad is significantly incorrect – these aircraft are not FIKI certified despite having de-ice boots (not TKS!) and heated prop.

Real world climb and cruise performance is no better than the piston powered version.
- FL180: 190-200 KTAS
- Climb to FL180 around 18-20 min
- Poor climb rate above FL150, very bad above FL200.
Taking off with a light load from 500 meters should be doable with 450 HP, but I have no first hand experience.
Extra used to claim that grass ops are ok, but I do not take my (400) to grass strips, so I don’t know.

The cabin and cockpit of the E500 are just amazing, pressurization perfect (5.5 psi, automatic) and noise levels low.
This is in a class of its own, more like a small biz jet.

Note: no IFR certification if you move it to N-reg.

Cool, never see many of those for sale. Always a favorite of mine. The Allison 250 is in every light helicopter ever made, so that’s a pretty cheap engine to maintain with tons of second hand parts. But it has low thermal rating, so will run out of poop up high. EA-500 also has amazing range, think it’s 1600nm. Not sure about the support from Extra – didn’t they sell the design to China? Is anyone making parts for them still?

Flyingfish wrote:

he ad is significantly incorrect – these aircraft are not FIKI certified despite having de-ice boots (not TKS!) and heated prop.

Looking at the pics, I wonder, could it have been upgraded to TKS? The leading edge somehow does not look like boots.

Flyingfish wrote:

Note: no IFR certification if you move it to N-reg.

You mean none needed or no IFR possible under N-REG?

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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