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Cirrus, and pilot training

Just adding that from a journal that calls itself the airfactsjournal, I would expect more, um, facts.

Biggin Hill

A surprisingly bad article by Dick Collins - he's normally a lot better and always has stats to hand to prove his point. Not this time. Cirrus envy there?

That aside, you can also read this article differently - if you look at the FlightAware pic in and the para about how many Cirri are flying hard IFR every day, one could reasonably conclude that it's a great go-anywhere-anytime machine. Most of the problems seem to be in the first and last phases of flight, nothing to do with the 'glass cockpit lures pilots into inclement wx' argument. What might well be needed is more handling training and perhaps more manual flying (same issue the airlines are confronting these days btw, with many or most SOPs mandating autoflight for pretty much the entire duration of the flight).

In fact, anecdotal evidence would appear to bear the above out. The outfit I fly (and rent) from in KSMO had three Cirri - two got damaged / written off in landing accidents. They now have seriously increased the requirements for renting the lone survivor.

For disclosure - I have never flown a Cirrus (but wold love to do so!), therefore cannot comment on its handling characteristics.

PS: Peter can you please change the link behaviour so it opens in a new window? It's really annoying to write a reply if one wants to reference another web page.

Agree he has some great books and is normally very well researched.

EGTK Oxford

Peter can you please change the link behaviour so it opens in a new window? It's really annoying to write a reply if one wants to reference another web page.

We have discussed this here before.

Some like it one way and like it another way.

You can always choose in the client browser. In any desktop browser, a right-click on a URL gives you both options.

I believe the next version of the software will have this configurable for each logged-in user.

In fact, anecdotal evidence would appear to bear the above out. The outfit I fly (and rent) from in KSMO had three Cirri - two got damaged / written off in landing accidents. They now have seriously increased the requirements for renting the lone survivor.

It is difficult to say much new and relevant to the Cirrus debate, which has generated more gigabytes on all pilot sites than anything else (perhaps even more than UK landing fees? ) but having flown in one a few times I think the Cirrus suffers from one particular thing: the sidestick will tire your arm and wrist far quicker than a yoke, which leads to an almost exclusive use of the autopilot by most pilots.

The extent to which this matters depends. If you fly say 100+ hrs/year and go into smaller fields a lot, you are probably getting enough hand flying practice. But if you fly say 50hrs or less and most of your flying is to big places where you just fly the autopilot coupled ILS every time (and that will be pretty common in the USA) you may not be getting enough practice in throwing the plane around.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The handling characteristics of the the SR22 I can only call superb. It is very surprising when you fly it the first time how well this plane handles and how well mannered it behaves i the stall.

There's only SOME things (like in other high performance a/c) you shouldn't do, and one is low level high g maneuvering. A steep turn close to the ground and adding "top rudder" is the best recipe for desaster. But actually it would be in ANY (arodynamcially) similar plane, be it a Mooney, Columbia or Malibu.

I think the Cirrus suffers from one particular thing: the sidestick will tire your arm and wrist far quicker than a yoke, which leads to an almost exclusive use of the autopilot by most pilots.

In my experience (1100 SR22 hours), this isn't right. I found the side stick very easy and intuitive to use, your forearm rests on the arm rest and the stick fits naturally into your hand.

You do have to trim the plane properly using the "chinese hat” switch on the top of the stick but, if you do that, it's not tiring at all.

In a shameless plug: one point about Cirrus pilots and accidents that does bear making is that the incidence of pilot error accidents is much lower amongst members of COPA and much lower again amongst those who participate in the regular Cirrus Pilots Proficiency Program and Critical Decision Making training that they offer.

I would recommend very strongly that anyone who flies a Cirrus should join COPA: it is a terrific resource.

EGSC

In a shameless plug: one point about Cirrus pilots and accidents that does bear making is that the incidence of pilot error accidents is much lower amongst members of COPA and much lower again amongst those who participate in the regular Cirrus Pilots Proficiency Program and Critical Decision Making training that they offer.

I am sure COPA do great work, and a well functioning community is an essential support resource for pilots (which is why EuroGA was started), but one could argue that your data is largely due to self selection of the population sample.

I recall going to the CAA Safety Evenings. It was said that you were 30 times less likely to have a crash if you attended one.

Was this due to attending one? Absolutely no way, not with the useless patronising tone and content (I believe they have since improved). I once mentioned "GPS" and got a lot of hissing from the audience...

The attendees were just the sort who either were picky about doing things right, or people who never flew (which is a good way to have zero accidents). At the end, they used to queue up to have their logbooks stamped to say they attended!!!! I could only smile, and head for the car park.

Despite the huge publicity re spinning, I don't think the spin issue is at all relevant to the Cirrus, because the only time a pilot who is "mentally at all in the cockpit" is going to be slow enough to spin, is in the departure or arrival phases, and there he will be too low to use the chute, or recover a non-BRS aircraft conventionally.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I am sure COPA do great work, and a well functioning community is an essential support resource for pilots (which is why EuroGA was started), but one could argue that your data is largely due to self selection of the population sample.

Could be, I suppose. I don't really have any way of either proving or disproving this but I have personally met several people flying Cirrus aircraft who didn't know about COPA or at least didn't realise just how much it really offers and that is why I posted the comment that I did.

In addition, although the Cirrus was originally certified in the US on the basis that the chute provided an acceptable alternative to demonstrating spin recovery, when it was certified in Europe it did go through spin testing with no problems.

EGSC

Actually the SR20/22 were spun 60 times for EASA certification and, according to the test pilot, recovered without any problems.

The myth that the Cirrus only got certified because of the chute originates at Lancair/Columbia headquarters as afar as I know. That I where I heard it the first time.

the sidestick will tire your arm and wrist far quicker than a yoke, which leads to an almost exclusive use of the autopilot by most pilots.

Its potentially a bit of a silly point, but in aviation there tends to be a lot of redundancy - at least two of most things. Well, as humans we have 2 hands. But if one is impaired (e.g. cutting your finger on a sharp piece of metal somewhere or whatever), and it's your left hand, what use is your right hand in a side-stick aircraft? Very little if you also want to maintain control in my book. In my simplistic world, planes should all have yokes or centre sticks (taildragger/aerobatic types), and I also feel sorry for all those Airbus pilots with their side sticks.

Edit: Oh, there is a use for the right hand - it can control the autopilot all the way down to landing :-)

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