@boscomantico agreed about operating cost. The Saratoga has a big angle valve engine and a local turbo Saratoga owner recently paid over £100k GBP for an engine overhaul.
Insurance capacity, at least in the USA, is slowly eroding for older, complex types. At the moment affecting mainly older MEP types, but the direction of travel is likely to affect the complex SEP sector. The PA28R unlikely to be affected, but the six seat PA32R may find capacity constraints, but at the moment that feels some way off.
The Cirrus benefits from good capacity amongst underwriters, plus Arrow performance using fixed gear, and CAPS. At 25 years old the G1 is where the average fleet was 25 years ago! The G1 is largely clockwork panel, unless upgraded, which some second hand buyers may regard as good value.
Am surprised that there have been parts issues for the Lycoming -360, and have always been under the impression that the Cirrus line is well supported.
Hi Patrick,
I have a hard time helping you on your thinking.
What is your budget ?
What is your requirement in terms of cabin volume ? Do you want to carry bikes, skis ?
Are you IFR/night rated ? Do you want to get those ratings ?
Do you want the parachute ?
A G1 Cirrus won’t improve much your avionics situation, and they carry a bad reputation. They carry mechanical AI and HSI IIRC. Useful load can be limited too.
A Saratoga burns a lot more fuel for a cabin you don’t seem to really need.
If your Arrow is mechanically sound, I would lean towards an avionics upgrade. To me it’s not a financial decision (GA is not a good investment to say the least), it’s just the most direct path to enjoy a relatively trouble-free expansion of your flying. Look at Mateusz/lmsl’s panels and ask for quotes.
To be honest, I love avionics upgrade thread 
Am surprised that there have been parts issues for the Lycoming -360
AI confirms my memory on the SR20 and provides more detail in saying “older models (Generations 1 through 5, spanning 1999 to 2016) feature a Continental IO-360-ES six-cylinder engine, while newer models (Generation 6 starting in 2017 through the current Generation 7) use a Lycoming IO-390-C3B6 four-cylinder engine”
Patrick wrote:
More recently, however, I have realized that early SR20 (G1) are becoming quite competitively priced on the market (at 100-150k EUR vs 200-300k EUR for a similarly aged Saratoga) and while I’m emotionally not attached to Cirrus and more so to Piper, I have to admit that opting for a more modern airframe (and the additional safety considerations that my wife maybe more appreciates than I do) should not be so easily dismissed as an option.
The “wife” effect of a Cirrus is something which is certainly worth musing about. Seeing that quite a few people do not fly anymore post kids and some even after getting married, if a Cirrus would alleviate these fears, it would certainly be worth it.
The G1 versions of the SR20 however are “cheap” because they mostly don’t have the integrated avionics later ones have. Quite a few have a simply S-Tec 30 SP with pure clockwork panels (some are not even IFR), others have Aspens installed and STEC55x’s AP’s which also Avidyne equipped G2’s have. Most of them have legacy GNS430, some W some not. Avionic can be a huge thing therefore. I currently see one in Germany which has a decent avionics setup (Aspen, dual 430W, 55x) but this is something I’d be very careful about, avionic upgrades are Expensive with a capital E. SR20’s with G2 or G3 standard are not massively more expensive but they may well be worth considering for the avionics alone.
If your budget includes Saratogas then I’d consider a comparable SR22 with integrate Avidyne cockpit, WAAS GPS and at least an 55x AP, better an Avidyne AP which many received. They are out there, even G2’s and G3’s, some far in between, but imho worth looking at. As opposed to the SR20 their performance is quite a lot better and also payload. For IFR, the SR22 exists with TKS while the SR20 does not.
My 2 cents worth on the subject.
To add, I think the “step up” in your case is going IFR.
Without the IR it’s not worth to upgrade anything. @Patrick I haven’t noted whether you got the IR or are in the course of making it?
You can make an Arrow IFR capable quite cheapo. No one really “needs” all the glass. Two Garmin round gauges or an Aspen has all you could wish for. Have it coupled to the AP and put in a navigator.
UdoR wrote:
You can make an Arrow IFR capable quite cheapo. No one really “needs” all the glass. Two Garmin round gauges or an Aspen has all you could wish for. Have it coupled to the AP and put in a navigator.
Actually yes, the Arrow is quite a good IFR platform for “light IFR”, i.e. without ice and similar things. Upgrading however is an investment, which can, depending on where you do it, easily outprice the cost of an already equipped plane.
The main factor there is imho the Autopilot. Installing one in an airplane which doesn’t have one is a huge investment, particularly in Europe, to the point where I’d say it’s not worth it.
A full IFR setup will set you back 60-100k easily installed, with about half and half for the avionics and the other half work for the installation. I’ve done it, I am happy with the result but not the bill and I would never do it again but find a plane which has most of what I want and do the absolute minimum in terms of changes.
i.e. upgrading from the old GNS navigators to Avidyne ones or even Garmin ones is something which is comparatively benign, even switching a 55X for an Avidyne AP which has been done and still can be done in many early Cirrus airplanes. But the moment you are talking installation of EFIS; AP, all that, it very quickly becomes a project which blows the residual value of the airframe before you even start.
Installing one in an airplane which doesn’t have one is a huge investment,
Not sure I follow. My GFC500 installation was no cheaper because of the existing KFC225, apart from the few $K I got for its residual value.
I paid about €29K for my GFC500 installation, before the rebate for the KFC225 and before tax. Of that €12K was labour, and €1450 the paperwork for FAA approval.
Patrick has not been back but one really needs to know
FWIW, the mother of “family plane” threads is here
Hi Patrick, I have been in the exact same process. About 10 years ago I bought a very nice Arrow turbo T-tail, my first plane and really nice for the trips in Europe I made. I had no IR and did all VFR. The turbo was of use in hot summers and mountains. It landed on relative short grass strips and was maintenance wise not to difficult and expensive. But it wasn’t IFR and I wanted my IR. Then I found a nice Saratoga turbo of beginning 80’s. It was IFR but I did an upgrade to the Garmin GI275. The plane was nice and easy to fly although heavy, it used quite some fuel but I could bring my wife, bikes and a big dog and still land on small grass fields. Maintenance wise it was an older plane, with gear overhaul, broken nose wheel rim resulting in prop strike and some other issues. After all I sold it for something newer.
Last year I bought a SR22T with the Garmin avionics.
Off course it was bigger investment but it has a lot more capabilities, like deicing, oxygen, faster, safer feeling at night or over mountains. The only thing is the problem of grass strips in not to good condition because of the small wheels. Maintenance wise it will not be the cheapest but most of that I have to find out.
This was my progress through the planes and I am very happy with the Cirrus. If looking for a Cirrus and off course budget dependent I would also look at an SR22 if you want real IFR capabilities and as mentioned in other posts make sure it has WAAS I found out that some of the earlier ones don’t have it and it’s quite expensive to change that.
Good luck!
