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Jetprop grass strip / short field performance porn

Let me maybe comment as a Cirrus owner who has looked at JPs over and over again over the years

Some kind of Jetprop powered machine is the natural next step for most Cirrus owners and tracking COPA there are a lot of PA46 pilots on there because they used to have a Cirrus and like the community.

That said, Meridian is probably a more natural step than a JP as you get very used to the integrated thought-through from the factory feel in the Cirrus and the JP is just different than the Meridian there. Cirrus is going to great length to put an artificial second pilot into the cockpit – e.g. reminds you on flaps if you apply full power while on the ground just as one example.

While I agree that the JP offers exceptional capabilities for the cost, you can’t compare a brand new SR22 with a JP. You should compare with a similar age Cirrus and then the math looks very very different. A Meridian/JP is at least 2x the cost of a Cirrus all along the curve, so there is very good reasons for not trading up.

A Mirage is arguably a better comparison to the Cirrus. If you’re willing to trade old tatty interior and avionics for a larger capable plane, it’s definitely an attractive trade – but I’m not going to get into a G1000 Mirage for the price I can get for my Perspective Cirrus :-)

…..so for now I’m staying with the Cirrus

EGTR

mmgreve wrote:

you can’t compare a brand new SR22 with a JP.

Of course. But I look at it differently.

If I am willing to spend over $1 million for an aircraft what can I have: A brand new SR22T or a 10 year old Jetprop. The JP wont have that brand new feel – but at that price you can get a JP with an interior which is in very good condition and up to date Garmin/Avidyne avionics and the myriad advantages of the JP noted above. With the JP you wont have the depreciation that a brand new Cirrus suffers from. For example, I sold the Mirage I bought when it had 6 years age after a further 7 years for pretty much the price I paid for it.

Flying a JP is if anything simpler and easier than the Cirrus, especially engine management. No more constantly worrying about excess CHT in the climb and fiddling with the fuel flow. The JP has a traditional yoke vs the Cirrus side stick. I think the JP is actually a bit easier to land, no more worrying about dropping the nose with the nose heavy Turbonormalised SR22.

The fundamental difference is that between the tip top top end traditional GA aircraft (the Cirrus) and flying what feels like an entry level private jet (the JP). And believe me, once you have had the experience of spooling up the PT6 turbine, pushed onto the seat as you accelerate down the runway and climbing staring high up at the sky, there is no going back.

In terms of JP vs Meridian – there are some fundamental differences – the JP is under 2000 kg and thus no EU airways charges and often the 2000 kg point marks a big difference in airport charges in Europe. Being lighter the JP has MUCH better takeoff performance, I certainly could not use a Meridian on my 750m grass strip. The counter is that the Meridian is simpler to operate – fuel management, battery, etc. Because the ice deflector is set on all the time in the Meridian it has less power than the JP, which affects take off performance and rate of climb quite significantly. The JP is the rocket ship, and the Meridian is the family station wagon.

Last Edited by Buckerfan at 27 Mar 09:03
Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

@buckerfan a great ambassador for the Jetprop. Am guessing the Cirrus pilot has a few challenges to contend with: insurance cover, high altitude licence sign off and a thorough type conversion course. Cirrus have the training resources to provide type conversion, but finding a CRI (am guessing the JetProp has an SET class rating if not N reg) qualified in the JetProp who can organise the Class Rating requires some entrepreneurial skills. Conversely, if N reg, you need someone to qualify you for the high altitude endorsement, which in turn might need an FAA written if you don’t hold an FAA ATP?

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Good questions RobertL

Insurance cover has been a bit more difficult the last 2 years, due more to cyclical tightness in the market overall, but I think this is now easing.

I did in fact transition from a Cirrus to an old TBM700 in 2012. At that time I was easily able to get insurance with only 500hrs total time PIC and a fairly new FAA IR, but had to do 30 odd hours of transition mentoring – basically a few days of fun flying round France.

Then after the TBM for 2 years and 7 on the PA46 Mirage, and now 2000 hrs TT I was able to get insurance to fly the JP with no need to transition or mentoring.

High Altitude endorsement is an easy oral or written online exam plus a flight. That is easy to organise in Europe. To fly the N reg JP in Europe I have both FAA and CAA PPLs IR of course. For the CAA and Europe I needed to do a PA46 type specific SET rating, and need to renew that along with my CAA IR each year. It’s actually very straightforward. I do that with Jonathan Shooter of Oysterair. He is based at Biggin but usually does the work at Lydd in the UK. He seems to be the go to guy in the UK for formal transition sign off for all the turboprop GA aircraft – PA46, TBM and PC12. This includes flight tests and any other endorsements you need. One stop shopping. He is very professional, and I enjoy my workout with him each year and always come away having learned some new things. For other day to day training on the PA 46 piston or JP I used John Page at Oxford. Also excellent.

So in summary, provided you can get insurance the rest is straightforward and not an obstacle.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

mmgreve wrote:

If you’re willing to trade old tatty interior and avionics for a larger capable plane, it’s definitely an attractive trade – but I’m not going to get into a G1000 Mirage for the price I can get for my Perspective Cirrus :-)

That is probably the one central point. Most turbine pilots would rather fly the oldest beat up turbine compared to any brand new piston.

A few years ago a fried let me drive his Ferrari. I had driven many many cars but that was the frist one with ceramic brakes, a high rpm V8 and a chassis that would remain super stable at speed. Driving that car did show me how a car can perform. At 250km/h it would still accelrate hard. It would handle turns at that speed and also slow down like crazy from such speeds. Did it have the latest satnav, iPhone integration, 10 zone massage seats, an iPhone app which shows how full the tank is? No. Was it brand new? Not at all but it did outperform everything most dealers had in their showrooms. Even today that car is 20 years old and still outclasses nearly all cars for sale brand new.

That same applies to turbine power. It is not a feature among avionics, paint, LED lights, shiny paint etc. but it is the very core of the aircraft.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Sebastian_G wrote:

Most turbine pilots would rather fly the oldest beat up turbine compared to any brand new piston.

Yep – once you have sat behind a PT6 on the runway, spooled up the turbine, been pushed back into your seat as you accelerated down the runway and rotated into a 2,500 fpm climb staring high into the sky, you will never go back. The comparison with a Ferrari is not entirely correct. Yes, the JP has Ferrari performance, but an interior offering passengers the comfort of a Bentley SUV. Sitting in the back of a Cirrus, by comparison, is like sitting in the back of a Yugo, except that you will be sucking O2 through a cannula up your nostril at the same time.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

Buckerfan wrote:

The Jetprop: flies nearly 100 kts faster can climb to FL270 in 15 minutes

You know what’s funny, the Jetprop is darn near the figures of the Vision Jet too and you can get some 1st (FL280 limited) airframes for near that money too.

But the Vision Jet does not have the range of the JP and the overhead is yet in another league. Not to talk of things like short field e.t.c. and yearly sim checks e.t.c.

Sebastian_G wrote:

A few years ago a fried let me drive his Ferrari.

I was once a passenger in one. Frankly, I was darn glad when I could get out of it again. Apart that we had to refuel 2ce for a 100 mile journey.

As a Mooneyac I am not really squeamish about cabins, but that Ferrari was basically so low on the floor, that I was almost on my hands and knees to get out of it.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Buckerfan wrote:

been pushed back into your seat as you accelerated down the runway and rotated into a 2,500 fpm climb staring high into the sky, you will never go back

pretty similar experience and thinking when taking off with my steed and just a tiny weeny bit more in my price league

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Buckerfan wrote:

Yes, the JP has Ferrari performance, but an interior offering passengers the comfort of a Bentley SUV

But regarding the two people in the front (often the only seats occupied), it is no comparison. One reason I personally would not change from Cirrus to PA46 is the terrible getting in, and the poor comfort and visibility once you are seated (depends a bit on your dimensions of course, but it’s generally true.)

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Sitting in the back of a Cirrus, by comparison, is like sitting in the back of a Yugo

I obtained my driving license in Yugo

LDZA LDVA, Croatia
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