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To invest in property, or aircraft? TB21 for 240k euros, and other overpriced aircraft.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Outside art, stamps and precious objects/metals most investments are expected to generate a cash return, which you then discount. Not sure a TB21 would qualify?

Hence tidy 152s going for GBP35-40K as they are generally in demand for dry lease by schools. A portfolio of good 152s should generate an after tax cash flow of around 15% plus.

Oxford (EGTK)

£40k for a 152!

Egnm, United Kingdom

Looks like a very nice aircraft. Would be interesting to see how much payload it can take with all that equipment.

LFPT, LFPN

Here is one not very remarkable for £35K – well maintained 152, well presented, you are probably looking at £40K – it’s a £15-20k p.a. dry lease revenue aircraft.

Oxford (EGTK)

I’ve had property that fell by 99% in value, even if you over paid for an airplane and crashed it uninsured you’d struggle to loose that much.

As regards the dry lease option some people I know who’ve done it struggled to collect the rental payments. It would require good management, which is not beyond the beyonds. One guy I know of rents aircraft to parachute centres and he is supposedly doing well with that. I would like to try it sometime.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EIBR, Ireland

Would be interesting to see how much payload it can take with all that equipment.

A TB20 is 900kg empty and 1400kg MTOW.

A TB21 with TKS (and fluid) is about 1000kg empty and 1400kg MTOW.

Fuel is 86.2 USG usable (about 87 USG in all) so you can work out a TB21+TKS is a 2-seater with full fuel. Very capable for sure however… FL250 etc.

The 240k asking price is totally eye watering however. It would IMHO sell for about 150-160k. But then advertised prices are routinely marked up in anticipation of a 25-30% drop in negotiation.

But a lot of planes are “for sale” and priced to not actually sell – by divorcing men, to make them look hard-up… you get a much better divorce deal if you appear to be heading for the gutter (been there, done that, got the T-shirt, many years ago – any good male lawyer will advise you accordingly ).

In certain cases a bank which is lending your business money demands you sell up your “expensive hobby” which strikes me as excessively de-motivating, but then most bank managers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This TB21 is based at LFMA, and is a beautiful example.
I think it was brought from U.K. 5 years ago.
Now leaving again….
150k€ seems very low Peter, aren’t you depreciating a bit too much ?

This is probably better value..

Mainz (EDFZ), Germany

Bosco – yes; the pre-GTs sell for a lot less.

PetitCessnaVoyageur – I based my comment on amounts I privately know planes actually sold for. It is true that a TB21 GT is rare anyway (not many were made) and it is a really tough job to get TKS retrofitted in Europe (the German sole agency, Airplus, is a useless company which basically tells customers to go away), but 240k is way way over the top. Knock off 25% (180k) and you may get some genuine interest.

Also once you get near or over 200k, people usually want to buy an SR22 with TKS, not least because of the much greater “family acceptance” factor (the chute). The TB production ended in 2002 (some got assembled in 2003 and the later year models are basically all “documentation jobs”; one was a fake which resulted in litigation). A large % of the Socata TB owner group regulars are looking to sell up and buy an SR22, but an SR22 comparable in general condition to a well looked after late-model TB20 or TB21 is going to cost way more than they are going to get for theirs.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
136 Posts
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