That’s why Cirrus sells 400 airplanes a year, and all others together not even 40.
apart from bad training or individual bravado.
Would one pull it in the middle of a large city, when one could glide clear and still be above the min activation height? I know some have, but is that optimal?
Malibuflyer wrote:
Can you quote one actual example in Europe in the last 20 years for that “often enough”? I.e. a forced landing after an engine failure in an altitude that would have been high enough for a chute (i.e. no MEP single engine go around crash) and that lead to a casualty?
Another couple which fellow forumites told me about was D-EASI in 2011 which ran out of fuel and crashed whilst attempting an emergency landing. Or about a V35B which also crashed in 2008 near Regenstauf killing 3 after declaring an emergency and attempting an emergency landing. Or F-GBUP, in 2015, which suffered an engine failure after take off, tried to turn back and crashed, killing 2 on board. Interesting in this one was the fact that the PIC was an instructor who was drilling into pilots the need to ‘land ahead’ but instead, when his engine failed, he turned back. Or D-ELTK which set off on a sight seeing tour, called out a mayday due to engine failure and crashed shortly after.
What you’re also forgetting about is the utility of the chute in case of structural failure, whether this was in the case of the wing spar failure of the P28R in the US or as a result of mid air collisions. Or how about the case of F-GXBB which hit a vulture in 2016 at altitude and crashed. A chute could have led to a different outcome….
PS: Thanks to those forumites for sending me the details of failed emergency landings just to underscore that not all emergency landings go to book, some end catastrophically wrong.
Peter wrote:
Would one pull it in the middle of a large city, when one could glide clear and still be above the min activation height? I know some have but is it optimal?
Remember the pull of the chute over Cheltenham??? What I mean by that is compare the outcome of that pull with an attempt to perform an emergency landing whilst over a city. Ok, if you know the wind strength and direction, can judge your ability to glide clear, maybe you should. But sometimes you become so focussed on the task at hand, your situational awareness goes out the window….
Btw: Is there any example of a pilot who died in Europe during the failed attempt of an off airport no power landing after an engine failure in let’s say the last 20 years?
I quickly checked the UK AAIB site. Here are some examples:
G-BHAY Piper PA-28RT-20 Stalled during forced landing, Wolferton, Norfolk, 11 September 2017 2 fatal
G-YAKB Yak-52 Loss of power and unsuccessful forced landing, 1 nm north of Dinton, Wiltshire, 8 July 2016 1 fatal 1 serious
G-AZRP Engine failure and stall at low height during forced landing, Cathedine, Powys, 19 July 2015. 1 serious
Wow.
This thread is exposing some people who will go the whole hog to justify the unjustified.
You can also look up the NTSB database as I once did: https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx
If you search through all the cub accidents then compare them to the faster types, the answer is pretty stark. Engine failures do lead to deaths, and faster aircraft are more dangerous. If the engine stops in a LongEZ then you are in mortal peril. In a cub you’re very likely to walk away.
Clearly these accidents aren’t in Europe (why restrict your data to Europe?) but I don’t see why they shouldn’t be applicable here. If anything I would expect our statistics to be worse, as on average our fields are probably smaller and our terrain more rugged.
Obviously to me, I’d pull the chute in a Cirrus any day before trying a dead stick off field landing.
I’d be interested in stats for DA40 deadstick landings. Any fatalities there?
You are as able to look as I am, but no: no fatalities due to engine failure for the DA40.
There were some fatal accidents where a parachute might have been useful; perhaps half.
Thanks. I’ll check ntsb db when I have faster internet. Was wondering if anyone knew any anecdotal data for DA40 off field landings.
Anecdotal I believe the DA40 is very safe. I’ve never flown one. But I understand that overall they have a notably good safety record.
