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Cirrus BRS / chute discussion, and would you REALLY pull it?

LeSving wrote:

Let’s look at it differently. The engine stops at 10k feet and you have at least one 3 km runway within gliding range. Would you still pull the chute? If the answer is yes, then the confidence in your own ability as a pilot is severely lacking to the point of ridiculous IMO. Every pilot flying a SEP should be able to pinpoint a dead stick landing without a sweat

Or to put it another way

“Lets redefine the problem in limited terms just to suit my prejudice”

United Kingdom

Good analysis @tomw

always learning
LO__, Austria

I don’t see any “prejudice” in LeSving’s post. Why get personal? Read the forum guidelines.

Why waste an aircraft, just because you can and the insurance will pay for it? Well, they will pay for it but your career as an insurable pilot may be over; see further back this thread for an example. It may be OK if you were renting it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

tomw wrote:

Lets redefine the problem in limited terms just to suit my prejudice

I haven’t redefined anything. The problem is the same; The engine suddenly stops working. This means you have zero thrust from the engine. The only trust you have is from good old, always working gravity. Gravity never fails . Except the engine, everything on the aircraft is working exactly as before.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

TomW probably meant that when discussing the problem of an engine failure and availability of BRS/CAPS then it makes sense to also discuss situations when not directly overhead a 3km long runway.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Indeed ! but not according to Cirrus:

Pull early, pull often

Which is what the discussion has been about the last 10? pages

My view on this is very clear. There is no black or white, it’s entirely up to the PIC. Just don’t expect everybody to applaud dogmatic decisions based on lack of skills/confidence rather than decisions based on a real assessment of the specific situation.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Rick Beach’s phrase “pull early pull often” is probably based on vote early vote often.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LeSving wrote:

86
Indeed ! but not according to Cirrus:

Pull early, pull often
Which is what the discussion has been about the last 10? pages

My view on this is very clear. There is no black or white, it’s entirely up to the PIC. Just don’t expect everybody to applaud dogmatic decisions based on lack of skills/confidence rather than decisions based on a real assessment of the specific situation.

I would recommend you go to a human performance analyst, it will open your eyes. There is a reason for the ‘pull early, pull often’ and it’s not because of the lack of skill / courage that you like to ascribe to Cirrus pilots.

The reality is, let’s say you’re at 10k feet and the engine stops, the pilot can become so task fixated – trying to get the engine running again – he totally overlooks the fact that he has to configure for best glide, select a field. Indeed, there is a Cirrus simulator in Poland and they know that Cirrus pilots which haven’t learnt that mantra, they often forget that they have the BRS on board and try to make the best out of a poor situation – choosing a card from Deck 1 instead of deck 2. The mantra ‘Pull early, pull often’ reminds Cirrus pilots that they have that option.

So please, refrain from repeating your Chorus of ‘Cirrus Pilots pull because they have no skill’, it’s getting tedious…..

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 19 Jan 21:30
EDL*, Germany

LeSving wrote:

It may very well be the “right” decision, you will never know for sure because you cannot chose both at the same time and compare the results. But it is your decision as PIC.

Lets look at it differently indeed. The question is… Do you feel lucky?

There have been 93 saves using the CAPS system. 93 times the system has been used within operational parameters, without a single fatality in the air or on the ground.

So, the “James Randi” challenge:

Take a hat.

Fill it with the full set of 20 years of AAIB/NTSB reports of high performance SEP forced landings.

Pull out 93 of them.

What are the odds that you can pull 93 out of the hat in a straight row without a single fatality in the aircraft or on the ground…?

I’’ll see those odds and raise you a Ballistic Parachute*

* Ballistic parachutes are fitted to many aircraft these days, but the discussion always seems to revolve around the Cirrus

The reality is, let’s say you’re at 10k feet and the engine stops, the pilot can become so task fixated – trying to get the engine running again – he totally overlooks the fact that he has to configure for best glide, select a field

Which pretty much describes exactly what I am talking about. Better pull the chute than to do the proper training and prepare for the flight before jumping into the plane ?

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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