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Cirrus BRS / chute discussion, and would you REALLY pull it?

It usually a two stage process, right?
1. You learn how find the right spot and position for landing with 500-600’ AGL go-around. Instructor tells you if it was OK.
2. In the vicinity of an aerodrome you simulate an engine failure and land on a runway (could be a grass runway).

EGTR

I don’t think one has to land, there is nothing to train for bellow 50ft (just fly it, held it off and hope for the best ) but you do get a good idea how your landing will be at 50ft (as you can clearly see obstacle/surface and judge your ground speed) and usually you are comming really hot on speed +15kts, so size matter

PFL in power/glider, instructors will only check that you can make the selected field on stable apprach at say 300ft final, bellow that it gets very tight to do meaningful instruction anyway

Field selection, there is lot of ink about it but I really think is very optional for a touring aircraft, just pick the biggest size you can reach from 1500ft (even including some obstacles after touchdown), stick with it and land into wind/slop, place does not have to be ideal (unlike a glider, I am not planning to fly that aircraft again), bellow 1500ft I would just fly straight into wind, above 2000ft In a Beech I would do like Peter, bellow 1500ft I would have pulled the chute in a Cirrus unless I have a 3km runway ahead

ESSEX, United Kingdom

Steve6443 wrote:

To me, it is irrelevant how the fatality came about – whether the pilot stalled, swapped the field, hit an obstacle – the net result is fatalities occurred which could have been avoided under the chute.

I think Steve is spot on here and it all boils down to that. It is just irrelevant why and how exactly they died and wether they were trained good enough etc. They are dead and most probably were still with us if they had a chute available and prepared to use it. Those who think “I’d do better in such a situation” – well….

EDLE

Exactly.

EDLN, Germany

Having had a partial power failure I found that the subconscious temptation to pull back was surprisingly strong. Whenever I checked, which was often, I found my speed creeping back. It took a lot of conscious effort to keep on the right side of the curve.

I seem to recall that about 9/10 C172 off field landings turn out well for the pilot and passengers, but I’m not sure where I saw that statistic. It implies that 1 out of 10 doesn’t. I’d also vote for a parachute.

EGCW

Practice landing at a farm strip. You’ll need permission. And practice sidesliping, electric flaps may be u/s.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Steve6443 wrote:

How about instead of sniping from the side, you actually explain what you mean?

Well Steve it’s that attitude that is well to the fore in this thread that stops me wanting to contribute in the way you suggest. Clearly some people are not being very logical and that is very regrettable when the discussion is about safety. If the post made you stop and think for a moment that was my objective, not you specifically.

egtu, United Kingdom

WingsWaterAndWheels wrote:

If I understand correctly, in Norway, i think you can if you have the prior permission from the land owner and probably some other restrictions (not quite sure)

There is an exemption from the min 500 ft AGL for practicing emergency landings. It has to be done away from gatherings (of people) and outside rural environment (which basically means all of Norway except city centers ) You are not allowed to actually touch the ground without the permission of the land owner. But as you say, plenty of small strips to practice on (Frosta, Skogn, Inderøya etc). IMO spotting these small strips between grassland and wheat fields (or whatever they grow) is by far the hardest thing so it’s better to practice on any nice and flat field you can find, just watch out for power lines.

I don’t think there is much to learn about the touch down on an unprepared field. Just tighten the belts, fly as slow as you can, and fly it until it has come to a complete stop. It’s important to remember that an emergency landing indeed IS a life threatening emergency. The only objective is to survive. I have had one. Luckily the airport was within gliding range which made my choice of field very simple.

Peter wrote:

There must be only a small number of scenarios where pulling immediately, regardless of altitude, is the smartest thing

IMO never. It’s one thing to land in a somewhat controlled fashion on a field in the valley. Another thing is to get help as fast as possible.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

tomw wrote:

Well Steve it’s that attitude that is well to the fore in this thread that stops me wanting to contribute in the way you suggest. Clearly some people are not being very logical and that is very regrettable when the discussion is about safety. If the post made you stop and think for a moment that was my objective, not you specifically.

In the interests of clarity, what do you consider to be ‘justifying the unjustified’? The way I read it is that you view pulling the chute to be unjustifiable. I will never apologise for pulling the chute if I have to.

kwlf wrote:

I seem to recall that about 9/10 C172 off field landings turn out well for the pilot and passengers, but I’m not sure where I saw that statistic. It implies that 1 out of 10 doesn’t. I’d also vote for a parachute.

I saw those sort of figures, hence my original thoughts of having 2 decks of cards. In the first, 1 has ‘death & destruction’ written on it, the rest have ‘collect €1000’ written on them. In the second deck all cards have ‘collect €1000" written on them. You have an aircraft equipped with a chute and an engine failure. From which deck will you chose to take a card? Attempt a forced landing – take a card from deck 1. Pull the chute – take a card from deck 2. If you don’t have a chute, then your choice is limited when facing an engine failure. Take a card from deck 1……

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 14 Jan 22:54

@kwlf was that in a Turb? does it have a trim? the one I use to fly was never fitted with one but others have trims

When doing full flaps landings, I just go full forward on the trim wheel 1/ that is where it sit after I set full flaps & cut power 2/ it makes go around less dramatic and 3/ it is far intuitive to notice and correct nose going down than nose going up, but I would go with that as first SOP item if engine quits and forget about the trim, one less thing to think about

I take that 1/10 dead stick C172 as sensible number

ESSEX, United Kingdom
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