Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Cirrus BRS / chute discussion, and would you REALLY pull it?

I didn't quite see in the news article that the 'chute was deployed and the photo of this unfortunate accident didn't help ?

Hint: have a close look at the tree on the right side

The photo is difficult to interpret, but the way it looks is that the chute was just about opening when it hit the trees. You can see the chute in the top right quarter of the photo hanging from the trees, and you can see part of the rigging hanging from the aircraft

It is not fully extended (the lines are MUCH longer than what we can see).

From the Cirrus POH:

As a guideline, the demonstrated altitude loss from entry into a one-turn spin until under a stabilized parachute is 920 feet. Altitude loss from level flight deployments has been demonstrated at less than 400 feet.

My personal "procedure" in the Cirrus was that for an engine out scenario over land with fields in range, I would attempt the landing in a field with a final decision at approx. 500ft, and earlier if it is obviously going wrong.

Biggin Hill

apparently an engine stoppage in the aerodrome circuit

Not sure it was in the aerodrome circuit. In the article it says the aircraft was heading from Bron to Feurs. If you look at the supplied maps in the article, it was near Poncins. The nearest airport there is Feurs Chambeon to the south, but from the supplied crash site he is well to the north of the traffic pattern.

The traffic pattern is 1000 agl there, from the chart... I have never flown a cirrus but what would the default postion be? Try to land in a field, or just pull the chute? Because if it is the latter, I wonder why he got so low.

EDHS, Germany

I have never flown a Cirrus, and know nothing more about this than what I see in this thread, but;

It appears there was deployment, but maybe not enough to dissipate energy to a safe stop. Though again, I speculate, was the person who took the photo standing with their back and/or sides to a much more open area, which might have been suitable for a controlled forced landing? The aerial photo suggests the possibility. I believe that one you deploy the 'chute, you give up all control of your arrival place.

I read something not long ago about a Cirrus pilot who got to the ground on the 'chute, but the whole aircraft was then dragged some long distance, and this made matters much worse. Again, no control of the outcome.

I would think that I would make a poor Cirrus pilot, my instincts to remain in control of the plane are too strong for me to reach for the handle!

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

The POH position for an engine failure in the Cirrus is to glide to a landing site if one is in range, but pull the chute over water or inhospitable terrain. And that is what the Cirrus standardised training programme teaches, and also what I was taught in my simple "check-out".

I would understand if some prefer to pull the chute instead of relying on rusty forced landing skills, but that is a personal decision.

The chute in the photo was not even deployed early enough to fully extend the lanyards, let alone inflate the chute and slow the aircraft down, so sadly it made no real difference to the outcome of the accident. Whether this was a case of "too late", perhaps even a tragic attempt to deploy when a forced landing went wrong, only later analysis will tell.

I will be watching this with interest. Why was the chute deployed so late - perhaps he was trying to follow "my" SOP (decide at 500ft) and it was too late, or he made a decision to continue and got it wrong?

Biggin Hill

Considering Cobalt's comments, along with the others, I see a larger pilot decision making picture:

A pilot should as often as possible "have a plan". Once you have that plan, you should follow that plan, unless carefully considered new information makes a different plan the better one. Problems start coming when you try to execute two plans at the same time, or vacillate between two plans.

"Shall I fly the forced approach, or shall I pull the 'chute? Hmmmm.....", and the valuable altitude rapidly decreases while you ponder, doing neither properly. if instead, you are committed to only one course of action, you won't be distracted by the other, you'll focus, and get it right.

Rusty forced approach skills? Practice! That, is definitely not an excuse for pulling the 'chute!

Home runway, in central Ontario, Canada, Canada

The Cirrus Owner & Pilot Association (COPA) is advocating now for many years together with Cirrus to pull the chute often and NOT to try to land the Cirrus on a grass-strip. Most of the cases of the chute pull resulted in the pilot and passengers walking away with minor or no injury while almost all of the forced landings resulted in death or serious injuries.

It takse quite some effort to convince well thinking pilots to make this mind-shift, but it is definitely the main focus of COPA. On the COPA forum there is lot and lots of discussion on this topic, so sign up if you are interested.

Some initial information on it: http://www.cirruspilots.org/content/CAPSSavesAndFatalAccidents.aspx

EDLE, Netherlands

Going through the list of CAPS saves, amazing number of "icing" or "lost control in IMC" incidents versus pure mechanical failures.

Going through the list of CAPS saves, amazing number of "icing" or "lost control in IMC" incidents versus pure mechanical failures.

True mechanical failures are rare even in pistons. Why is it surprising?

EGTK Oxford

We could place bets on how long it will be before the roaming Cirrus rep discovers EuroGA

I am sure he will set all of us on the correct path to eternal happiness.

There are a couple of possible explanations for that wreckage. One is that the chute got activated by the impact. The other is that it was pulled quite late, before it could slow down the aircraft but not before it caused it to become totally pitch- and trajectory-uncontrollable (which I am sure would happen immediately the chute opens up).

My view would be the 2nd one, because an instructor ought to be able to pull off a forced landing, of some sort, and at least be flying a lot slower so near the ground than these people were.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top