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How much would you pay to fly this Cessna P210 Turbine Silver Eagle

http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=35731

Don’t hit me I’m not very proficient in these issues.
Saw this P210 Turbine up for sale and it raised some thoughts (from an austrian perspective where you basically can’t go anywhere without passing hostile terrain). There is no rental solution in my area that provides 6 seats and a decent mission success rate. Mission being 5 adults for 1 hour to venice lido, portoroz, croatia and alpine area. The local SR22 I charter is pretty shagged and goes for 500€/hour wet. While it offers comfortable seats and good speed it is quite loud/vibrating and the chute (to me) only offers a safety benefit if I don’t factor it in for the missions I fly (e.g. no prolonged time in IMC because of no WXradar due to EMBDTCCB, no flight in icing, no alps if danger of rotors etc…). As soon as I’d start doing stuff because I’m relying on the chute I’ll probably get me into all kinds of other problems. The DA42 would require me to activate and sustain my MEP rating and goes for 500€/hour wet as well. Still only offering 4 seats.
There is a tenderly loved Arrow that was nicely restored, but it is also in the league of 400€ per hour.

A used 500.000 dollar DA42 has two engines, uses very little Jet A and flies very easily/nicely, but even with WX Radar I can’t cross the alps during bad weather (non pressurized, questionable fiki, performance). The whole climbing in over the wing exercise gives it that sports plane touch (I know, shouldn’t matter but it does).

A new one million dollar DA62 has 2 more seats and is also very fuel efficient but see above.

A new 800.000 dollar Cirrus uses Avgas (duh) and has the (discussed to death) parachute but without WX Radar and pressurization it is as limited as most other SEP planes. There are some interesting used models on the market, but the nice ones are still several hundred thousand dollars.

In my layman‘s terms I‘d consider the 210 to offer good versatility for the purchase price. Easy to enter, comfortable seating and pressurization, power to quickly climb above most weather to FL150+ and good TAS. Takeoff and landing distance not too bad.
Are the operating costs of a P210 Turbine „in another league“ compared to the above pistons? Fuel flow is surely a factor but compared to the capability and speed one gets in return is it still that
much higher? Is the pressurization unreliable? Are there maintenance nightmares awaiting?
Off course the airframe is ancient and old stuff is more prone to break than new stuff – but is that true for this plane?
Factoring in engine reserves etc…, and also that flying a turbine is appealing to many pilots for obvious reasons, what are your thoughts on this model and how much would you be willing to pay for such a plane if you charter it?

[ N4422N advert local copy 1 2 3 ]

has a Beagle...
LOWG Graz Austria

The Arrow for €400 per sounds very expensive. A single engine piston around here goes for €130 per hour wet.

PS: sorry I missed the point that you want 6 seats.

Last Edited by Dimme at 30 Jul 13:17
^ESM[ES]$, Sweden

Snoopy wrote:

In my layman‘s terms I‘d consider the 210 to offer good versatility for the purchase price.

First things first. Since I operate one of these out of my own choice (which, BTW is for rent ex-ELLX), you have the mother of all selection biases with my answer. This being said, I agree.

Snoopy wrote:

Takeoff and landing distance not too bad.

To add to this, POH figures are conservative. They match, foot for foot, the take-off and landing distances of the piston version. The planes does better on take-off, certainly any day that you are torque-limited (as opposed to temperature-limited), even at MCP (maximum continuous power, as opposed to take-off power). I routinely do my take-offs at MCP, unless I’m nervous about the runway lengths. Landing distances are specified for “ground idle when all wheels on the ground and speed below 80kts”. You’ll get shorter ground roll if you use beta range.

Snoopy wrote:

Mission being 5 adults for 1 hour to venice lido, portoroz, croatia and alpine area.

5 adults of 75kg and no luggage at all leaves you about 170kg for fuel, a bit above 2h at cruise power. A bit more if the plane is less equipped than my reference (less avionics, no wingtip tanks, …).

Snoopy wrote:

Are the operating costs of a P210 Turbine „in another league“ compared to the above pistons?

I don’t think so.

Fuel flow is surely a factor but compared to the capability and speed one gets in return is it still that much higher?

In most places, fuel is also cheaper.

Snoopy wrote:

Is the pressurization unreliable? Are there maintenance nightmares awaiting?

The pressurisation is weak even when working perfectly near the plane’s operating ceiling, and its “economy cruise” altitude (which is FL200 and a bit above), since this puts the design cabin altitude at 10 000 feet. When flying FL200, I fly with oxygen, but I use a small oxygen concentrator (medical unit with maybe-modified firmware) and don’t have to worry about filling oxygen containers. At the plane’s best speed altitudes (FL140-FL160, say up to FL180), the pressurisation is very comfortable to OK on its own.

The pressurisation is a long-term maintenance issue. Leaks will develop, your maintenance shop spends time to find and fix them, you pay. Especially the gear actuator boots will have big holes every 5-10 years, and need replacing. The whole landing gear system has a reputation of being a bit fiddly.

Last Edited by lionel at 30 Jul 13:43
ELLX

I have never flown a P210 Turbine but I am told that the big difference is that these are Allison helicopter turbines. They work but don’t expect them to be like a Pratt PT-6. They are smooth, fast and easy to maintain but lack the sheer size to easily manage pressurisation at high altitudes particularly with the inherent weaknesses in the pressure vessel. But a good compromise turboprop.

At that price you are starting to get close to used older Meridian prices. A very different plane but something to think about.

Renting out a turboprop must be done carefully but with the right engine monitoring and with suitable vetted pilots it could be done securely.

EGTK Oxford

It seems this one has been for sale for a while and price reduced. Apart from Chelton what can be the reasons it has not yet found a new owner?

pmh
www.ekbr.dk, Denmark

I think we have found @Valentin’s airplane !

Very interesting responses, thank you!
Any resources for operating costs? There is a book about the C210 in general on amazon but I’m not sure it applies to the silver eagle.

The linked one was originally priced at 795k… don’t know what‘s up with it, I’ll try and find out.

Appreciate the valuable input received!

has a Beagle...
LOWG Graz Austria

It seems this one has been for sale for a while and price reduced. Apart from Chelton what can be the reasons it has not yet found a new owner?

I tried to buy this plane 6 weeks ago and visited during his anual in a German shop. The seller is not willing to give 1€ now less and you have this horrible smell from jet fuel, because of the weak sealing from the bach tank. For me, coming from a SR22, I thought a good platform to upgrade, but not with this conditions.
Beside this no SD program from was performed and with its birthday it is not FIKI. One told me they have before 1982 a weaker structure .

Sebastian S.
EDAZ, Germany

Thanks. What is an SD Program?

has a Beagle...
LOWG Graz Austria

I don’t think any silver eagle is fiki.

pmh
www.ekbr.dk, Denmark
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