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How much would you pay to fly this Cessna P210 Turbine Silver Eagle

What is the range, to zero fuel, of this TP conversion?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For less money, you can get into any numbers of TP twins that will have the all weather penetrating capabilities you need in Austria and the Alps. They’ll be FIKI, have onboard radar and in general be able to carry much more. Can they be run for €500/hr like the Cirrus? No, of course not. But probably around €800 if you are aggressive and chose the right model. A TP single probably a little less per hour, but then you have the capital cost increase to contend with. Although like JasonC said the earlier Jetprops and Meridians are coming down in price.

Last Edited by AdamFrisch at 30 Jul 21:40

Snoopy wrote:

There is a tenderly loved Arrow that was nicely restored, but it is also in the league of 400€ per hour.

I think I know that one. It can hardly be called your house variety Arrow with that equimpent :) But a very nice airplane indeed.

@Peter,

Range to zero fuel, nobody really wants to do that but well:

It’s got 147 USG usable. At FL230 it burns 19.5 GPH and yields 208 KTAS. ROC is around 1500 fpm average which means 15 minutes to FL230 @ 140KTAS average, no fuel used to TOC available but lets be conservative and call it 15 USG. This would leave 6.7 hours at 19.5 GPH which translates to 1408 NM plus some 40 NM for the climb, so let’s call it 1450 NM to dry tanks.

Realistically?

Arrival delays don’t occurr high up and lower down this engine will have a much higher flow. At 12’000 ft the figures I have say 25 GPH. So let’s call for a final reserve of that. With the climb fuel of 15 USG, this leaves us with 107 USG cruise fuel which translates into 5-30 flight time. And let’s call TAS 200 kts up there, so we’d see a useful range of about 1100 NM including climb.

As you mentioned before, the 210 is a capable airplane in any regard. The Silver Eagle just takes that a tad higher with a much better speed and pressurisation.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

AdamFrisch wrote:

For less money, you can get into any numbers of TP twins that will have the all weather penetrating capabilities you need in Austria and the Alps.

Given that this Silver Eagle is listed at $580k I reluctantly agree… but of course two turbines cost a lot more to operate.

Lets say a Cheyenne I which are available for about the same price, it burns 60-70 GPH at 230 kts, has 2 PT6’s which need to be kept happy and on program, e.t.c. From price, today you can even get a Citation for 250k with some 1000-1500 hrs left to fly on the engines, but again, operating costs are massively higher than a Silver Eagle, particularly in Europe.

Even compared to Jetprops, the Silver Eagle has a good performance and can actually take more than an infant or two at max fuel… and it is below 2tons. We had a guy named Carlo Schmid fly one of them around the world a few years back. They are rock solid airplanes for the purpose of fast and largely hassle free travel with regards to fuel availability, speed and economy.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

JasonC wrote:

At that price you are starting to get close to used older Meridian prices.

The Meridian ist above 2T so about 50€/h tips for Eurocontrol. Is the PT-6 a little more thirsty compared to the Allison? What is a ballpark charter price number for a Meridian per hour? It is a very appealing airplane… true cabin class and more roomy and comy than the P210.

pmh wrote:

Apart from Chelton what

Apparently it is not possible to get Chelton approved for EASA IFR.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Both he PT-6 and Allison are free turbines, so they would probably be on par on SFC. The Allison is normally a little less power than many of the PT-6’s, so will tend to burn less. I seem to recall the helicopters using the C20’s (basically the same engine) at sea level were burning around 23-26gal/hr.

I like the Silver Eagle, and think it’s a nice and economical TP to own on paper. I desired one myself at one point. But the 3.2psi cabin diff (or whatever it is) is just a show stopper for me personally. I find the 4.2psi I have not even close to enough. It’s not nice to fly long distances with a cabin at 10000ft+. Makes you very tired and increases cognitive risks. Add to this the lack of FIKI etc and I just think there are better alternatives to be had.

Snoopy wrote:

The Meridian ist above 2T so about 50€/h tips for Eurocontrol. Is the PT-6 a little more thirsty compared to the Allison? It is a very appealing airplane… true cabin class and more roomy and comy than the P210.

And it is officially FIKI, and is much more of a plane all-around. However, for tall people, the pilot’s seat is less roomy. And doesn’t fit in the same hangars :)

The JetProp DLX is 1950kg MTOW.

https://rocketengineering.com/jetprop-comparisons-2/ lists a “normal fuelburn” of 34 usg/h and 41 usg/h for the JetProp DLX and Meridian, respectively. That is 0.5 l/nmi and 0.6 l/nmi, respectively. Depending on which numbers you take, a P210 Silver Eagle is a bit to much better in l/nmi than the JetProp DLX (and thus also beats the Meridian):

  • 20 usg/h and 195-200 kts (marketing fuel flow at 23000 feet – take supplemental oxygen – and my guess at speed) is less than 0.4 l/nmi
  • 25 to 27 usg/h and 215 kts (marketing speed at 16000 feet and my guess at fuel flow) is 0.44 to 0.48 l/nmi.

A Silver Eagle owner did actual tests and published a table (the Silver Eagle POH does not have a cruise performance table!). From FL130 to FL230 and ISA+10 to ISA+14 (non-monotonous with altitude), max power cruise gave TAS of 200 kts-201 kts to FL210 and 196 kts at FL230, flow of 26 usg/h to 20.6usg/h, and 7.7 to 9.5 nmi/usg (the higher the better). That’s 0.49 l/nmi to 0.4 l/nmi. Since the turbine was temperature-limited in all “max power” tests (down to FL070), I expect better performance at ISA.

In the same table, economic cruise (higher is always better economy; speed is not strictly monotonous with FL):

  • around 171-175 kts gave 8.3 to 10.7 nmi/usg, namely 0.456 to 0.35 l/nmi;
  • around 181-184 kts gave 8.1 to 10.5 nmi/usg, namely 0.467 to 0.36 l/nmi;
  • around 193-195 kts gave 8.0 to 10.3 nmi/usg, namely 0.473 to 0.37 l/nmi.
Last Edited by lionel at 01 Aug 03:41
ELLX

Thanks for keeping up the great responses everyone.
I sense a market/demand for a 6 seater around here (being a true 6 seater payload wise only when doing shorter hops would be alright). The available piston planes are going between 5 and 8 € per minute wet and apart from the DA42 do not offer WX radar. None offer pressurization and “hard” imc/icing capability. All involve “climbing” into the plane over the wing (Arrow, Cirrus, 42). Judging by their website there is a very well managed club in Germany offering a new(er) SR22 for 230€ per hour. I assume the local entities I rent from mark up the charter price by about 100% compared to the true operating costs.
Factoring in all costs it will be hard to match any available SEPs price wise but I could see the increase in cost compared to the available planes being offset by higher dispatch reliability and additional seats (unit cost decrease). Overall perhaps 1/3 more for 2 times the utility. Turbine will see less market exposure as not many SET rated pilots. On the other hand a pressurized piston doesn’t make too much sense too me (pistons are fast down low and it seems like TBO is a factor when going into the teens, turbines like it higher).

The Pipers look fabulous (like a mini personal airliner). Are any concerns about structural breakups in the JetProps still valid (something about exceeding VMO during descent too easily)? Will dig into accident reports.

How do the Pipers fare on grass compared to the 210?

So no C210s are FIKI in EASA land?

Can one put a used plane’s turbine on an engine program (probably only if it comes with the plane already) to reduce risk (e.g. 1000 hours left before TBO is not worth much if a PT6 breaks after 100 hours – complete overhaul for the lower power ones is 300k?

Is the taxman accepting depreciation on used airplanes (might be too specific too answer)?

Thanks all!

always learning
LO__, Austria

lionel wrote:

A Silver Eagle owner did actual tests and published a table

Do you have a link?

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

lionel wrote:

A Silver Eagle owner did actual tests and published a table

Do you have a link?

http://www.p210silvereagle.com/mbbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=137#M716

ELLX
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