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Airline insisting on 90%+ exam pass marks

Recently I heard that the main short haul airlines like Easyjet are asking for this, in all 14 exams.

Presumably it indicates a massive over-supply of frozen CPL/IR holders.

But does it say anything about the quality of the pilots?

I have done the seven JAA IR exams and as a part of that spent a few days at a ground school FTO and saw how the students (mostly 20+) work collectively to get the homework done (they probably all hand in the same answers ) and the “full immersion” environment for a number of months pretty well assures good exam marks for most of them.

I suppose 90% does mean the student is going to be intelligent, in some sort of way. And committed. It’s quite a tall barrier to climb.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It’s all bollocks.
90% proves one thing only. The student possesses the capability to learn the correct answers to a given set of questions.
The questions have nothing to do with reality in many cases, and they don’t really test your comprehension of the subject, despite this being the ultimate goal.
There are numerous databases and sites that contain the questions and answers and anyone with half a brain, time and commitment can learn enough to pass with 90% or more.

This is where the system in the US makes more sense. You take the written, and the questions can be memorized, but then there’s a S.O.B. examiner across the table asking you painful questions that require understanding and knowledge, as well as the understanding to explain why.

As an example, the correct answer to the number of satellites in the Navstar GPS system according to EASA exams is 24 (21+3). The truth is that there are far more than that. What knowledge does the question constitute?

I can understand that airlines need to select recruits on some basis and this is just one more criteria that can be used to reduce the amount of applicants. In the end, they are going to select based on a number of different criteria and probably miss out on a couple of really bright pilots in the process, while hiring some they wish they hadn’t. It never will be a fair game.

Last Edited by Krister_L at 20 Jul 17:55
ESSB, Stockholm Bromma

I was chatting to a friend recently who is an Airbus left seater and I said that 90% of what you learn in most exam environments is bollocks that you will never use. He disagreed, claiming that he used it all, all of the time.
I asked him when was the last time he had to calculate the adiabatic lapse rate of a parcel of air and he conceded the point.

Last Edited by Stickandrudderman at 20 Jul 20:08
Forever learning
EGTB

He disagreed, claiming that he used it all, all of the time.

I can’t understand how anyone can say that with a straight face. He probably did his TK so many years ago that he forgot the nonsense – like most students do within months if not weeks.

Aren’t there airlines which make pilots sit written exams throughout their career?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Krister_L wrote:

90% proves one thing only. The student possesses the capability to learn the correct answers to a given set of questions.

I absolutely agree. I am one of those with over 90% and I can honestly say that I know much much less than pilots who did the test with me, got a lower result but have been in the airplane much longer. Theory is good to learn but it is only one side of the whole knowledge.

Also I have a friend with 2500 hours, most of them commercially (but no jet time) and an A320 TR (simulator only) who applied for a job at EasyJet. He was one of about 800 candidates for 2 spots and was among the last 4 who were in the simulator session/interview (he didn’t get the job unfortunately). With a ratio of 400:1 it’s very easy for airlines to select not 90%+ but even 99%+, expect you to have the TR and thousands of hours on the plane and they will probably still find enough pilots.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

He was one of about 800 candidates for 2 spots

That’s incredible… what has led to such a ratio?

Surely, if that is industry average, then unless all the FTO students are completely stupid, they must have realised there is no market for them.

Maybe most of the European FTO business is training pilots who will fly in the Far East, etc?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

what has led to such a ratio?

I think it’s the love for flying. Have a look at this forum: there are dozens of people investing incredible amount of time, passion and money just to go flying.

LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

Have a look at this forum: there are dozens of people investing incredible amount of time, passion and money just to go flying.

Most ATPL students I have met (the ones in their 20s) are not really into flying as a personal sort of activity or a personal challenge. They want to drive airliners, and I think that to many of them it is a glamorous job (they watched too much of Leonardo DiCaprio etc etc).

Also these people have sunk absolutely astonishing amounts of money into their frozen ATPLs. If they were keen they would have found much cheaper ways of doing a CPL/IR and the 14 exams.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

What other criteria than these pass marks do airlines have for the initial selection of their candidates? As written above: hundreds of applications for every single position are the norm these days. Of these, only two dozens or so can go through the internal screening/assessment process of the airline.

What does it mean if candidate has 90 percent pass mark in his ATPL exams? Nothing of course, because with a bit of patience you can train a monkey to click the correct answers in the electronic questionnaires. But it does say a lot about the candidates with 89 percent or less: Even a monkey can do better and you really don’t want to trust tens of millions worth of aeroplane and hundreds of your passengers to a sub-monkey-performer. Drastically speaking.

EDDS - Stuttgart

As written above: hundreds of applications for every single position are the norm these days. Of these, only two dozens or so can go through the internal screening/assessment process of the airline.

If 100 applicants apply for 10 positions, and each applicant applies for 10 jobs… the odds might not be as bad as they look. 800:2 is another matter.

If there is a problem with the 90% pass criterion, I suspect it’s that it is likely to discriminate against older candidates who may well be trying to pass the exams whilst holding down another job. Truth is I know very little about airline flying, but my inclincation is that I would probably prefer to sit behind someone with a little maturity and life experience.

I know Easyjet accepted a lot of partly trained RAF pilots a few years back when they were downsizing, which was a bright move as the RAF recruits very well. As I recall the chap I met already had a job offer despite still being at the hour building stage.

I’ve also heard that agreeableness is a big factor. ‘Would I want to sit next to this person on a long flight on a regular basis?’ I suspect quite a lot of people fall down on that one.

Last Edited by kwlf at 21 Jul 08:01
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