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Airport management discussion - USA versus Europe and why Europe is so often so screwed up

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WhiskeyPapa wrote:

@what_next
How is it that US airports of all sizes are able to accommodate GA traffic without disruption?

This question has been asked so often already that it makes me tired to read it… I have no idea. But I have come across so many experts on the internet who know exactly how an airport needs to be managed that I wonder why they don’t do that for a living. BTW: The position of CEO of my homebase airport will be vacant soon (the present one will reach retirement age in a few weeks). Looking forward to see that position filled with a GA friendly person who will show us all how an international airport can be run with a profit while still accommodating GA traffic for zero landing fees and free AVGAS for erverybody.

EDDS - Stuttgart

what_next wrote:

BTW: The position of CEO of my homebase airport will be vacant soon (the present one will reach retirement age in a few weeks). Looking forward to see that position filled with a GA friendly person who will show us all how an international airport can be run with a profit while still accommodating GA traffic for zero landing fees and free AVGAS for erverybody.

How much freedom does the CEO of a company that is owned by the capital city and the Bundesland have? However, there is a good example not far away: Hannover EDDV. A very GA friendly CEO that had/has a tremendous impact. BTW: EDDS Stuttgart has a lot of GA activity (just count the small aircraft on the apron) and the airport fees are still reasonable. It’s the monopolist handling company that has the license to rip off people.

There is nothing inherently logical about funding airports with federal taxes instead of user fees. You can do that and it makes some people happy but you can also charge user fees. There are many ways to fund public infrastructure.

what_next wrote:

The position of CEO of my homebase airport will be vacant soon (the present one will reach retirement age in a few weeks)

I think a good start would be stop giving ridiculous job titles to the airport manager.

@Silvaire: sorry, but that’s only a matter of semantics. Nothing essential there.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

What is evident is that airports in Europe are run by people who think the ‘greater purpose’ of an organization that should serve pilots and the public is to serve themselves. I think giving the airport manager a silly job title like he runs a multinational company is part of that situation, and it seems to me that knocking the airport staff down a peg would often make things better for airport users.

The same actually goes for pilots, i.e. calling a guy in a Cessna 150 the “Captain” and so on. Theatrical nonsense applied to everyday things breeds an overdone formality and arrogance around airports that is unproductive. Just my opinion.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 25 Apr 17:15

Silvaire wrote:

I think giving the airport manager a silly job title…

CEO was my translation of the offical title “Flughafendirektor”. But what does make this “silly”? After all, my little homebase airport employs over 10.000 people, there are "CEO"s in companies which have 10 employees.

Silvaire wrote:

and it seems to me that knocking the airport staff down a peg would often make things better for airport users.

Would it? Already now we have to wait up to 30 minutes for our baggage when arriving as economy class passengers. “Knocking down” the number of employees would also cut jobs with baggage handlers so we will have to wait even longer… Just one example of many.

achimha wrote:

There is nothing inherently logical about funding airports with federal taxes instead of user fees. You can do that and it makes some people happy but you can also charge user fees. There are many ways to fund public infrastructure.

Exactly (and BTW: Welcome back, Achim!). “We” Europeans – at least a great part – are used to pay for the services we receive. Why should both my grandmas (who never flew once in their lives but worked and paid taxes) pay for an airport? Divide the cost among those who actually use it.

EDDS - Stuttgart

Silvaire wrote:

I think giving the airport manager a silly job title like he runs a multinational company is part of that situation, and it seems to me that knocking the airport staff down a peg would often make things better for airport users.

Over 10,000 people work at the airport under said CEO’s management. That is a sizeable company by any means.

Silvaire wrote:

The same actually goes for pilots, i.e. calling a guy in a Cessna 150 the “Captain” and so on.

You would call the pilot of a C-130 “captain” and treat him/her with respect so the pilot of a C-150 should at least expect the same courtesy, shouldn’t he/she?

what_next wrote:

Why should both my grandmas (who never flew once in their lives but worked and paid taxes) pay for an airport?

They should pay for the airport they never use so that GA pilots can enjoy it for free while her grandchildren have to pay for universities and build up huge debt before taking there first job because there is no tax money to fund higher education…

Last Edited by achimha at 25 Apr 17:26

Many grandmas don’t drive, they take the bus. Despite that, and correctly so, thousands and thousands of kilometers of roads are maintained for everybody, along with a few kilometers of runway in places where both cars and aviation works well.

Grandmas and Grandpas where I live are the wealthiest generation of people that has ever existed any time, anywhere. I’m slowly working my way up from $100 in the bank to joining them. Maybe having reasonable transport infrastructure, and less costly government oversight of our personal business, has helped both them and I.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 25 Apr 17:33
(and BTW: Welcome back, Achim!)

seconded!

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Silvaire wrote:

Many grandmas don’t drive, they take the bus. Despite that, and correctly so, thousands and thousands of kilometers of roads are …

Buses need roads as well. And again – here in Europe at least – we pay road taxes for every vehicle we own and fuel taxes for every liter of fuel we use, and with which the roads are built and maintained. People who don’t use roads at all don’t have to pay for roads.

Silvaire wrote:

Grandmas and Grandpas where I live are the wealthiest generation of people that has ever existed any time, anywhere.

AFAIK, grandpas and grandmas in Switzerland are wealthier. Yet they have to pay road taxes in Switzerland, GA has a difficult time at Swiss airports, and who uses a service, pays for it. Apart from education which is free, from playschool to university. Beat that

EDDS - Stuttgart
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