I moonlight at a crummy ATO that offers CPL and IR training. At present about a 1/3 of freshly minted CPL/IR holders drop straight into the right hand seat. As for the rest once a year up since they qualified they are then going to struggle to get a position. Pretty well all of them to a man then goes on and does an FI course does a stint building hours getting to know people and then they move on.
Over the last 25 years I think I now about 8 people whose commercial flying career failed. Loss of medical being the major course. Two where just useless (kicked off type rating course due lateness/poor attendance) and finally two decided to stay as instructors.
Anyone I know who is flying professionally in GA, rather than an airline, has got the job through being well known and well regarded at the airfield. It’s definitely a “who you know” game. As Bathman also noted, mostly these people have instructed at the same airfield for a while – and some will never do more than that. Obviously it helps to base yourself at an airfield where there is some GA activity that you would like to move up to – but don’t expect it to happen quickly. If you want a job in a hurry, go airline and be prepared to relocate.
I believe that professional GA of the type you are thinking of (PC12/TBM) is more difficult to get into than an airline. Opportunities are fewer, are not often advertised and are very much dependent on being the right person in the right place at the right time.
A friend of mine does just that – King Air / bizjet stuff. He works incredibly hard. It’s a “7 day a week available” job which really buggers your social life. I am sure he does OK but he has been at it for years and has built up a lot of contacts so his slack time % is low.
One problem is that commercial AOC ops in these types are not big in Europe (aspecially as SET AOC ops are still in the future) so a lot of the work is for owner clients, and while they might fly a lot, they spend say a week at a time in one destination, and then what do you do? You need good contacts to fill in those gaps with some little jobs.
Two where just useless (kicked off type rating course due lateness/poor attendance) and finally two decided to stay as instructors.
If that was the same two, that’s really nice, isn’t it, for their students?
Reminds me of some “crazy instructor” threads e.g. here
In Norway, professional GA = Helicopters. There are some Caravans and King Airs flying goods and sick people to/from hospitals, but I wouldn’t call that GA?
LeSving wrote:
here are some Caravans and King Airs flying goods and sick people to/from hospitals, but I wouldn’t call that GA?
Why not? In my understanding, GA is every kind of aviation outside airline and state (military, police). At least around round here, ambulance flights are always handled at the GA part of the airport.
Regarding landing a job: Keep trying and never give up. Apply for every job vacancy that fits your qualification (especially license type and language currency). Don’t bother to apply blindly at companies which don’t publish currently vacant jobs. Your letter (or email) will go straight into the trash bin otherwise.
Don’t take a job as a “safety pilot” with a self flying businessman or private owner, no matter how appealing the aircraft might look (a “microphone holder” job as we call it). You will waste precious life time, accumulate no flying time of your own because the owner will be PIC on all flights, and on privately operated single-pilot types you are nothing but a passenger sitting in the right hand seat. I know a couple of guys who went that way and never flew again after their “employer” sold his airplane.
Good luck!
what_next wrote:
Why not? In my understanding, GA is every kind of aviation outside airline and state (military, police). At least around round here, ambulance flights are always handled at the GA part of the airport.
Yes. But then GA is a rather loose term. Scheduled and often non scheduled passenger traffic with helicopters to the North Sea oil installation, is that GA? On the very edge at best. Ambulance and SAR is GA I guess, sort of, but lots of this traffic is paid by the state. I was thinking about the “real” commercial GA with helicopters, working in setting up telecom and electric grid mainly, as well as lots of other construction or transport missions. Today I would believe the relative amount of this commercial GA to all fixed wing GA to be at least 20 to 1 or something, probably more.
Right now there is an add for TBM850 pilot in Luxembourg for some reason advertised on Polish pages… 2000 hours required… How many are usually required to act as PIC on TBM850?
Turbavykas wrote:
How many are usually required to act as PIC on TBM850?
That depends on the type of operation:
Private/corporate has no requirements other than what the employer wants to see. You can theoretically fly it on day one after you get your license. In private operations this is purely a single-pilot aircraft, so there is only the PIC. As I wrote above, you can not build hours in the right hand seat in this kind of operation which will count towards those 2000 hours.
Commercial operations are different. The hours required for a certain position (PIC part 23 aircraft, FO part 23 aircraft, PIC part 25 aircraft and FO part 25 aircraft) are established by the operating company and must be approved by the supervising authority. There are certain minima required by the authority which usually wants to see a safety margin added by the operator. For example, to act as PIC on a part 25 aircraft, an unfrozen ATPL with a minimum of 1500 hours is required by law. There is no such legal requirement for a part 23 aircraft, but a typical figure for a PIC is 1000 hours including 500 on the type or class of aircraft. Most authorities require two pilots to fly turbine aircraft, so commercially flown right-seat hours can be logged, even if the type is approved for single-pilot operations.
But really, which ATPL holder with 2000 hours of flying experience would take a job on a single-engine aircraft? Has our business really come down to that level?
Judging from young FI turnover at my local ATO, airline hiring seems better than I ever recall. Young FIs seem to be landing jobs within six months from gaining an FI. In the US they are getting sign on bonuses, and I believe one airline has had to discontinue operations due to pilot shortage. Am not sure the business/corporate world has picked up as much and this sector can be quite cyclical.
Some SET positions are quite well paid: typically they are one man flight departments and manage the aircraft, including organising crew and acting as chief pilot. By well paid more than your lo cost captains, although experience requirements are high. Plan on living at airports.
