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Anybody using Camguard? (merged)

"Where does it say in the POM or the maintenance manual that the oil should be analyzed, or that the oil should be changed every 25hours, or that we should add Cam guard."

I gave a three hour presentation to 15 Lycoming engineers and the head of engineering to me they made a big mistake extending the oil change interval to 50 hours with the addition of a full flow filter because they do not filter off water or acids. I suppose you prefer using non-dispersant to those new fangled AD (ashless dispersant) oils.

"Some Multi-grades (IIRC Bakers and Shell) do already have the Camguard component in the oil as a stock component.

Point to note is that Camguard is very hygroscopic so unless you are doing enough hours (minimum of one per hour nearly every week) you are actually making things worse.

Again IIRC Camguard was mandated for some engines as without it the cams of some engines were spalling away in a few hundred hours."

Camguard consists of 11 high performance components to achieve corrosion protection, anti-scuff and anti-wear, deposit control (the only product to do so) and seal conditioning and protection. It is 100% active and contains no diluent oils.

NO other oils contain Camguard or any of it's components.

Camguard is not hygroscopic (where do people come up with this stuff)!

The Exxon Elite oil contains a dispersant viscosity modifier which IS hygroscopic and DOES form soft sludge in cooler running engines as Peter has noted.

Camguard is not mandated for any engine, however, the head of Lycoming engineering was so impressed by my presentation that he offered to test Camguard as an alternate means of compliance with their scuffing AD (AD 80-04-03 R2) at their expense and is in process.

Ed

"Of the two multigrades in common use in Europe (AS15W50 or Exxon Elite) which would you say is better with Camguard?"

IF the Phillips multi-weight (or other multi-weight mineral base oil product) is not available I would use a mixture of the Aeroshell 15W-50 with W80 in the fall, winter and spring. This reduces the amount of synthetic base oil and still gives you some multi-weight performance. The oils are perfectly compatible.

Ed

IF the Phillips multi-weight (or other multi-weight mineral base oil product) is not available I would use a mixture of the Aeroshell 15W-50 with W80 in the fall, winter and spring. This reduces the amount of synthetic base oil and still gives you some multi-weight performance. The oils are perfectly compatible.

Maybe the Phillips oil is available here but I have never seen it for sale anywhere.

If the addition of W80 (to AS 15W/50) is desirable for tech reasons, but one was to use the same oil all year round, what % of W80 would you guess might be worth going for?

I ask this because the difference between "winter" and "spring" may not be much, especially as poor weather may often mean that the same oil is in there in January and in May. Frankly, very few private owners are going to be doing say 30hrs between January and May in N Europe

Is there anything really wrong with just using AS 15W/50 (no W80 mix) with Camguard? (ignore the cost issue, because oil costs very little really, on the scale of operating costs)

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Which is worse, the soft sludge you've seen first hand or the lead sludge buildup that can seize your oil control rings or fill the prop hub. You get the first with the Elite and the second with the Aeroshell. You also have to worry about your Continental starter adapter and the seals in the engine with the AS.

Personally I would use a 50/50 mix of the AS 15W-50/W80 in the colder months and W100 in the summer. And of course with Camguard.

Ed

What about straight 80 in winter and straight 100 in summer plus camgard.

aircraft do a minimum of 4 hours a week and one of them is a 172n

"What about straight 80 in winter and straight 100 in summer plus camgard.

aircraft do a minimum of 4 hours a week and one of them is a 172n"

Add a litle preheat if it is really cold and it is a good way to go.

Ed

Personally I would use a 50/50 mix of the AS 15W-50/W80 in the colder months and W100 in the summer. And of course with Camguard.

Do you mean

1) AS15W50/W80 in the colder months, and AS15W50/W100 in the summer, or
2) AS15W50/W80 in the colder months, and W100 in the summer

(with CG in both cases)

The problem which I mentioned earlier is that often one might have to cope with a wide temp range on the ground during a single oil change, so 2) is bound to be sub-optimal.

If you meant 2), is the problem with using W100 in the winter that starting might be harder, or is there an inflight-operational issue too? The oil temp should be regulated after all.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Obviously the problem is lubrication during engine startup, if the oil is too dense there will be increased wear on the engine. Preheat is a good solution, however it is rarely possible when parking the aircraft somewhere. If I go skiing to Austria, I don't see how I could preheat my engine the next day.

I like your idea of a 50/50 mix of 15W50 with W80 in winter and W100 in summer. I think I am going to give that a try.

"2) AS15W50/W80 in the colder months, and W100 in the summer

(with CG in both cases)" THIS is what I meant.

IF you want some mutigrade character in the warmer months THEN use a 50/50 mix of W100 and 15W-50. You will end up with something like a 25W-50. I would still preheat at 5C or below.

I dislike the 50% PAO synthetic base oil AND the phosphate ester anti-wear (I dislike the sludge from the Elite more). I would be more comfortable diluting the 15W-50 with the W80 or W100.

There is no issues with oil temperature in cruise unless the temperature is below -20C. Below this you may want to block off the oil cooler.

Ed

I used Elite with Camgurd, the oil started to blacken out at around 15h, I changed it at 25h/4 months and oil filter at 50h. Never seen the sludgebut. Good to know about the oil mix, thanks.

Ben

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