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ATC arguing with pilot re a request to turn to avoid

The ability to record both sides of transmissions is extremely useful. What set up do you use for yours?

I use a Tascam DR-05. One thread is here. I made up a plug to go into a spare headset socket, with some resistors and caps and a pot to attenuate the level suitably for the recorder’s line-level input.

IMHO the DR-05 is probably the cheapest one that is any good. It is great – the main drawback is that the two AA batteries last about 10hrs, but it seems that if you plug in a USB cable with 5V on it, it draws power from that instead.

The simple way is to get something with a mike and stick the mike inside the headset earcup. I used to do that too but the thing kept falling out. My present setup is totally hand-free and isn’t touched for the whole flight. Shoreham to Bolzano and back is about 200GB of video and 100MB of audio I am fishing for sympathy because I then have to edit out 99.35% of it

Other videos here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

The only thing I would add is I guess we shouldnt take it too seriously,

Well, sure. I started this thread because this was a very unusual situation.

Oh sorry, I didnt intend to suggest I was dismissive of your very real concerns.

To be blunt, and as others have said, when weather is a factor (so far as you are concerned, and you are the only one that can make that judgement call) they can all s** off, and it then helps to not take whatever “pressing”, sarcasm or whatever it might be too seriously (which you didnt), and, as long as you were “right” not get too worked up about some of the idiots chipping in like the other pilot en route! (who has managed to work you up a bit subsequently!). It seems to me and most here that essentially you did exactly the right thing.

I think the biggest and best lesson to come from this is not to be pressed by anyone else, unless they are in the cockpit with you and then we all know about how to manage that!

boscomantico wrote:

they very frequently say “coordination in progess” (which means “shut up and standby” )

I regularly get this in Italy when I ask for shortcuts

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

bookworm wrote:

How did it end? Did you enter the cloud you were trying to avoid on the heading you ended up on? Was it icy?

You never answered my question. Can we even see the bit of the video where you get all iced up?

You are pulling my leg

But if you wanna to see ice, here’s a pic:

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In light GA, at say FL160, your rate of climb is not great so you have to work well in advance, often 50 miles ahead, and often going for a mere hint of a blue sky visible in some cloud many miles ahead.

Very well put – in typical piston GA, weather avoidance is more strategic than tactical. Eurocontrol is also not that friendly below FL240, the US tactic of flying a turboprop at FL160 or FL180 in a headwind doesn’t seem to work as they will vector you far and wide. In busier airspace they may have sent you on a nice detour for your troubles.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Hi ,

I spent 15 years in ATC, en/route. Controller, instructor. This is bullshit. I mean, I believe your story, but the acting of the ATC is unacceptable. If you cannot proceed according to the prevoius clearance or the issued clearance and it is not acceptable due to a reason which may affect the flight safety, the ATC has to provide you an alternative clearance. If it is just an approval, just that. If it is a coordination with the military, then let’s coordinate. The final judgement for the safe conduction of the flight is on PIC shoulder.

For me it is easy, because I understand they world, and I can tell them on polite was what to do in order to accept my request. But generally it should not happen like this.
The trick is with ATC, to say HDG or TRK for WX, not ask intersection or waypoint. I know, many of them may believe that your request is for shortcut, what he would not give due to MOA, TRA or any other airspace which need coordination. But the HDG for a certain distance with real WX reason is a different story. For that, he may do extra coordination, or informing you, that has no influence on the airspace next to you, ergo it is your responsibility. It was the case, when the KOSOVO NOFLY zone existed. In Serbia no one talked to NATO controllers, so Belgrade ATC was very nervous if you wanted to deviate that course.

Zsolt Szüle
LHTL, Hungary

Without the audio of the communication described in post #1 there no way someone to tell what really happened. Just my opinion.

Of course, not, I just wanted to highlight the procedures. I assumed, that the pilot is not cheating. As an ex ATCO I may say pilots sometimes cheat. As 747-8 captain I say, ATC ensures safety, and many times feel, that they stay within their comfort zone ))

Zsolt Szüle
LHTL, Hungary

Post 53 has the video and the audio track.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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