Well a time I needed a block altitude was crossing the Allegheny mountains of all things. There was such severe up and down drafts that I was not able to maintain
Altitude + or – 2000’ on top of that then there was the turbulence. It went on for 100NM.
Another reason is if you encounter icing (although Ive never had to ask for it) to find an altitude with the least icing. I think in that case it was an expediency situation for the controller. With the limited traffic in Europe that should not be a problem.
C210_Flyer wrote:
Do you get block altitudes to minimize?
In principle you could I don’t know in practise. But why would you want that? I thought the operational advantage was that ATC didn’t need to separate you from other traffic.
What a pity.
Do you get block altitudes to minimize?
C210_Flyer wrote:
Do they have VFR on Top here in Europe and still be on an IFR flight plan
No.
Very interesting topic too bad Im late to the party.
One reason I find it challenging to fly over the Alps on an IFR flightplan especially if you want to avoid all clouds is the limited capability of a non turbocharged aircraft.
Just a thought if you had what appeared to be lenticular clouds there had to be strong enough winds to make one cautious about flying over the area. If the winds were negligible than there would be no lents. and no rotors to worry about.
Do they have VFR on Top here in Europe and still be on an IFR flight plan as opposed to VFR over the top?
http://thinkaviation.net/vfr-on-top-vs-vfr-over-the-top/
I found out that they dont allow contact approaches here in EASA land.
I never had any problem with controllers in Hungary, Austria, Germany which is mostly where I fly, to ever give me grief about deviating. Usually if there is weather most controllers know about it cause everyone is deviating for the same reason.
Regarding the use of the term avoid. I really think its too short and not informative enough to the controller. Never heard it used in the US without a qualifier. Like "requesting 15 Deg to the right to avoid a build up. That could be for Turbulence reasons or possibility of Ice. Just to use the term avoid it could be cause you see a VFR airplane or a flock of geese, sandstorm, snow shower you get the picture. The frequencies at the lower Altitudes are not so congested in Europe where one has to be so brief.
Whether there is ICE in the clouds you wouldnt know until you poked into it. As far as Icing is concerned yes clouds below freezing level will have some ice. But if it is a crystal clear day and it is not a CU, chances are there will not be a lot of moisture in the cloud. However with that said I have never used as much TKS fluid in 15 yrs in the states as I have here in Europe during the past 5years. Mostly because the airways are so high and even in the summer Ive picked up loads of Ice but that was flying through CUs.
Just some thoughts.
I’ve read all thread very carefully.
I’d like to stress just one point related to last a few posts:
VMC and IFR are not in contrary. There are many procedures executed according IFR required VMC and even visual reference, not only flights in Alpine region.
At the end, nice topic, many useful ideas and lessons learned.
Radar Control Service is a UK-only thing, AFAIK. What determines whether ATC elsewhere consider you under a “radar service”, I don’t know. In France, the phrase “radar contact” covers any VFR also also. It all seems quite ad-hoc.
Certainly I have often got route concessions in the Alps region upon confirming that I was VMC. The rules which govern whether this is available are not known to me.
…usually ATC will add the phrase that terrain clearance is pilot responsibility and cancel radar control service.
I can’t help it. It does not seem to be documented properly anywhere. But I like it; it helps you out when you don’t want to climb uselessly for a 20 minute crossing of the Alps. Maybe a flatlander doesn’t understand this.
Probably it doesn’t require any documention. After all, you are still under IFR, so all the IFRs still apply. The only change is that you are allowed to operate lower than normal, with the proviso that you maintain VMC and keep clear of the granite youself. No need to make it more complicated!
boscomantico wrote:
Regulations: you would have to ask an ATCO.
You mean that as pilot you don’t know what regulations you are operating under? Flying IFR below the MEA even in VMC is not primarily an issue for ATC, it is an issue for the PIC!
