boscomantico wrote:
First off, there might have been some strange editing here.
Reading the NTSB report, it doesn’t seem that any ATC instructions were edited out. ATC was obviously abysmal, repeatedly misjudging the sequencing of the Cirrus with other aircraft and issuing conflicting and confusing instructions to the pilot.
According to data extracted from the G1000 system, the direct cause of the stall was that the pilot retracted flaps at too low an airspeed and in a turn. That is something that could easily happen if you are overloaded and routinely retracting flaps without watching your airspeed.
Terrible ATC, completely unreasonable, hope they dont sleep at night after what happened.
However not sure why she lost control of the plane what did the ntsb report say – care to link that too ?
btw That video was posted to youtube 18 months ago, so not sure when you say it is “currently doing the rounds on social media”
JasonC wrote:
Yes ATC were all over the place and behaved very badly, but you fly your plane. She should have been more assertive.
I agree, and would add that when things start to get weird in this US circumstance, just quit. That’s one form of being assertive, retreat is a viable option so there is no need to fight a situation like this. It seems to me this lady may not have had the skill to deal with this busy airport situation and fly the plane at the same time and was overwhelmed, unable to land the plane. When feeling that situation coming on, it’s usually best to call it off and go to a quiet nearby airport and land. I’m not familiar with the area, nor her fuel state, not anything else and have no interest in judging the pilot even if I did… but there appear to be three smaller airports nearby, two of them non-towered and if it were me (and as a reminder to myself for future reference) I think the right thing to do would have been to go to one of them (Pearland Regional would seem to be a good choice, 7 nm away?), take some deep breaths on the way, and land.
It is reasonable to expect that occasionally what might be OK for somebody else will be too much for you, and react by realigning the situation with your own level of experience. In the US, similar situations when VFR around busy airports are not uncommon and can be challenging. However you don’t have to deal with PPR, ATC or flight plan nonsense and there are usually other quieter airports nearby, in which case you can make the decision, fly the plane, and just get out of there. A taxi fare for 10 miles is not going to be that expensive.
I found STC highly confusing, talking way too much and basically letting the pilot do the rounds just because they themselves misjudged the spacing several times.
On a side note: If I am not mistaken they never actually cancelled the first (or any of the following ) landing clearances, so the pilot could just have landed no matter what, right?
I learned in ground school that when you’re approaching a controlled airport and have been cleared to land then any traffic behind you is not your problem. They have to go around and can later blame ATC, not you! (Unless you somehow don’t fly the pattern correctly and waste time )
MedEwok wrote:
On a side note: If I am not mistaken they never actually cancelled the first (or any of the following ) landing clearances, so the pilot could just have landed no matter what, right?
In the US landing clearances are given often before you are number 1. ATC can always instruct you to go around as they did here.
The amazing thing about the US is the freedom to go into an extremely busy international hub….and be treated as an (almost) equal….in this case however the controller chose to take her out of the line due to incompatible speeds (80kt closing speed)….rather than instruct the following airliner to go around….that’s what started the whole debacle…perhaps Approach shouldn’t have allowed her to slot in…but they did…IMO the Tower should have let her continue….
tschnell wrote:
MHO the root cause was that she had been assigned RWY 35 with a 10G20 nearly direct crosswind
It was a quartering tailwind which is even worse…. So making a rough calculation using the clock method, she was experiencing anywhere between 9 to 18 knots cross wind with a tailwind component of between 4 – 8 knots. Either of those on it’s own is interesting enough, both together, especially when experienced for the first time, explains why, on her first approach to 35, she overshot.
Steve6443 wrote:
she was experiencing anywhere between 9 to 18 knots cross wind with a tailwind component of between 4 – 8 knots
… and now think of that left turn on the 35 go around with (supposedly) early flaps retraction … low and slow in a climbing pitch while banking tight (as stupidly instructed) left and the gusty wind switching to direct full tailwind at the worst moment ….
JasonC wrote:
She lost control of the plane which is not excusable. Yes ATC were all over the place and behaved very badly, but you fly your plane. She should have been more assertive.
That’s what I tend to think also. ATC fooling around is certainly no excuse for not flying the plane. At other non towered fields it could be other things that causes distractions. like gliders and skydivers that make you do all kinds of diversions and holdings. A PIC must have the priorities right.
JasonC wrote:
In the US landing clearances are given often before you are number 1. ATC can always instruct you to go around as they did here.
That happens here also. You can be cleared to land as number two, although lately they tend to clear you to final instead.
MedEwok wrote:
basically letting the pilot do the rounds just because they themselves misjudged the spacing several times.
What they should do was to hold her in a holding pattern until they got a grip of the situation, but it seems the approach was not very synchronized with the tower, it’s like every aircraft came as a surprise to them.
Sounds to me something is clipped from the last landing attempt she had ?
LeSving wrote:
What they should do was to hold her in a holding pattern until they got a grip of the situation, but it seems the approach was not very synchronized with the tower, it’s like every aircraft came as a surprise to them.
I flew to ELLX the weekend before last and was asked to orbit to the north of the field for about 6 minutes – 3 orbits all told – before they cleared me for the approach, that was basically due to Lufthansa and then LuxAir aircraft established on the ILS. However when I recall how another pilot flying a french C152 was messing them around, it makes me wonder at the cool and calmness prevailing on the frequency that day.
The pilot was cleared to join via one VRP and asked to make left traffic; the pic then ignored the reporting point, establishing themselves midfield right downwind, then proceeding to cross the runway centre line even the controller had asked them to orbit to the north of the runway… Some controllers might be ‘running with 6v electrics’ but then again, some PICs are definitely one can short of a 6 pack…..
