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Autorouter issues and questions (merged)

I think it’s the reason why you can fly in/out of LaBaule on I-FPL as it’s close to StNazaire and both managed in bundle? on missed from StNazaire you overfly the circuit at LaBaule

Same for I-FPL out of Annemasse, I was given clearance to depart straight and join SID from Geneva on the way to Toussus when I called and asked what to do, on Z-FPL/V-FPL you are supposed to fly toward Romeo & Annecy on VFR departure, in other words you get to fly behind Mt Saleve rather than overhead Lac Leman, I was flying in sunny weather but the routing offered a better user experience

Last Edited by Ibra at 06 Oct 08:23
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Has something gone wrong with the AR, or has the UK really changed the rules? EGKA-EIWT now looks ridiculous. One used to not get the detour over the sea, north of Wales…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

EGKA-EIWT

ForeFlight gives following at FL100 (practically direct) on Y plan:
IBGON BEDEK IDOVO LIPGO SORIN OTNER/N0159F085 VFR

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Peter wrote:

Has something gone wrong with the AR, or has the UK really changed the rules? EGKA-EIWT now looks ridiculous

Why it’s surprising? there is no Airspace and no Airways in Wales between UK and Ireland, this was since Wright Brothers or since Margaret Thatcher I don’t think it’s an AR issue? only sheeps go down that road

You can fly IFR OCAS over Wales and call London Infor (or RAF Valley for radar)


Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Aug 11:22
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

no Airways in Wales between UK and Ireland

M17, L14?

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

BTW I got this in AR:

EGKA N0171F180 GWC DCT PEPIS Y321 CPT Q63 STU M17 LEMGU/N0171F160 M17 VATRY/N0168F040 DCT ELKAM/N0151F040 VFR EIWT

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

ForeFlight gives following at FL100 (practically direct) on Y plan:
IBGON BEDEK IDOVO LIPGO SORIN OTNER/N0159F085 VFR

Bloody hell!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Emir wrote:

EGKA N0171F180 GWC DCT PEPIS Y321 CPT Q63 STU M17 LEMGU/N0171F160 M17 VATRY/N0168F040 DCT ELKAM/N0151F040 VFR EIWT

Yes if you plan that in FL160-FL200 you will be in Airways

In NA SEP without OX level FL100, Q36 stops at INRUB and M17 starts at VATRY and in between you are off-airway, off-airspace and off-radar…you will be told by Cardiff to call London Information while in Golf = treated as VFR (or IFR on 2000), unless you are near FL190 in Charlie but it does not matter anyway at VATRY Irish ATC will take care of getting you back into the system

A cleaner version IFR all the way in FL160-FL200 band: N0155F170 GWC DCT PEPIS Y321 CPT Q63 STU M17 DUB DCT WST , can’t beat the Y-FPL from ForeFlight

Sticking to SRD for UK & ROI at FL100, you will go to Liverpool first

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Aug 12:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

@Peter, what about this one? Keeps you in CAS uninterrupted in the UK most of the time…

GWC DCT PEPIS DCT KENET DCT UGBUD DCT MORAG DCT LUSAT DCT WST

EGTR

Yeah that’s a good one for the outbound, where once you leave UK CAS you don’t have to get back in

I will file that. It validates at FL100 so obviously OCAS (base is FL150). If you try for F150 you get loads of errors.

How did you get that? I got nothing like it even at FL170. Emir’s route – no chance.

There is a load of mil RAs over the sea, active only today, not tomorrow, so that’s OK. In the UK, Eurocontrol IFR OCAS is basically VFR, no assurance of ATC service, and if you go into an RA you get busted. So if there is any OCAS segment, you have to watch enroute notams. So one must turn on the Ipad for a bit while still at home, to pick up anything like that.

This also shows the UK is not feeding data to Eurocontrol – in fact a lot of countries do not.

This is my return route, which is fairly usual, and this is in CAS end to end, so I don’t need to “negotiate with London 124.xx” which is russian roulette

I did once fly the direct route on the way back and it was “interesting”. It actually all worked, via constant harrassment from me, but there was no obligation on ATC to do that.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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