How did you manage to keep the O360 above 40 liters? Even my IO360 consumes less in econ cruise (22"/2400 or 24"/1950). If you did flight training full power full rich a lot this might be a reason for higher fuel consumption over a cruise fuel flow. Or if you did calculate block fuel instead of cruise flow only…
mh wrote:
If you did flight training … Or if you did calculate block fuel instead of cruise flow only…
The aircraft was chartered mainly by flying schools and individual pilots. The fuel bills were on us (the group of owners). So all we had were the flying hours logged and the number of litres billed to us. Dividing one by the other always resulted in numbers greater than 80… I guess they cheated a lot with the flying time they logged and most of them didn’t care the least about leaning.
I had showed interest in buying the Aztec and called the owner and send him an e-mail. Right after that, the offer was taken off the website. He never responded to my call.
what_next wrote:
Dividing one by the other always resulted in numbers greater than 80… I guess they cheated a lot with the flying time they logged and most of them didn’t care the least about leaning
Puh. Reckon it is not that bad to have some means of checking this these days as well as good instruction before people are let loose on airplanes. The people flying mine are well aware that there is a logging page on my GPS as well as that I won’t accept runnig it outside SOP, which sais 65% cruise / 35 lph max without a good reason. I’ve had people who had to run flat out with 40 lph, but they always reported it. (usually due to slot restrictions at ZRH).
Other than that, the O360 should use between 30 and 35 lph if operated normally and leaned properly.
AeroPlus wrote:
I had showed interest in buying the Aztec and called the owner and send him an e-mail. Right after that, the offer was taken off the website.
It’s still on their site proper. I also sent an inquiry as one of the people looking around for whom I am the extended eye on the market was very interested. No reply so far. But I guess someone saw something most of us did not and grabbed it. And actually, it appears to be a lot better than some of the other Aztecs on PC with the lower prices. Well, good luck to the new owner and hopefully that airplane will do what it does best – fly – for a long time to come.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
The people flying mine are well aware that there is a logging page on my GPS as well as that I won’t accept runnig it outside SOP, which sais 65% cruise / 35 lph max without a good reason.
That’s one other thing. A light twin will typically be flown at around 60% engine power and well leaned. But renters pay by the minute so tend to fly flat-out so save them some money – it is not their fuel bill. If I ever rent out an aeroplane again (not likely) I will only do it dry. They need to pay for their fuel themselves. And, like you, I would put some kind of GPS logger inside that can not be tampered with. But that still leaves you with the bills for the clipped propeller blades, the knobs ripped off the avionics boxes (a typical King or Garmin volume knob costs 30 Euros to replace…) and the tyres braked flat after only three landings…
Excellent points by WN.
By downloading the EDM700 data, I caught one renter fiddling the flight times. I didn’t want to take him on (not big enough) so I just went in one day and took the keys back. He was a “famous” FI.
The above was the tip of the iceberg when it came to my “renting experience”. I would never rent out a plane unless I was happy for it to be shagged. And renting out a twin is extra tough because almost nobody is going to be current, due to the DOC (the marginal hourly cost) being a few hundred an hour. Then throw in “VFR” done to avoid Eurocontrol charges…
There was a scandal on the US sites when someone discovered an Avidyne knob was over $1000; they “cover it” as a fixed-rate repair fee. And I am thus fairly sure a Garmin GTN knob is way more than €30. Maybe it’s changed. But hey a knob which is not secured can work out awfully costly anyway 
I would think a normal handheld GPS track log is tamper-proof enough. You can delete a whole flight but you can’t edit the track log. Maybe you can download a track log, edit it, and re-upload it.
I understand both your comments and am aware that this is not uncommon. However, as I have said before, I think renting, and renting a twin can work very well. The key is the selection of people, and there are good guys around who will look after an aircraft as well as the owner. It remains a very good way to operate a twin, and an Aztec makes for a very nice platform indeed. The majority of Aztecs are properly de-iced, perform very well on one engine and have a load carrying capacity that is unsurpassed. They are also very robust. They arent for the average SEP pilot with limited twin experience, but for a pilot with a reasonable level of experience and a reasonable amount of twin time they are very forgiving and not especially complicated. Moreover they are rewarding to fly, and are excellent all weather touring aircraft. Twins have received a bad press for quite some time, and for some good reasons, however that may also be a good thing, because it is a well kept secret that keeps the capital cost down and dissaudes the casual owner or renters. Moreover, the need for an annual flight with an instructor, and instructors being that much more careful who they sign off is a good thing.
what_next wrote:
A light twin will typically be flown at around 60% engine power and well leaned. But renters pay by the minute so tend to fly flat-out so save them some money – it is not their fuel bill.
Well, as I said before, I am extremely lucky with my pilots. I know them all, no strangers, and all have gone through a training and want to keep flying. We have SOP’s which say max normal cruise is 65% and people do adhere to that or, if there is no hurry, fly even less. So far, I had one guy damaging a headset by accident and one guy making a mistake with electrical power. Both immediately offered and finally paid, I did not even have to ask. We also keep fuel logs, so increased consumption is easily seen. I’ve had so far 3 cases of high speed cruise reports, of which 2 were to make a slot and one was for other purposes. The additionally burnt fuel was approximately 10 liters on top of normal trip fuel in the longest case.
what_next wrote:
But that still leaves you with the bills for the clipped propeller blades, the knobs ripped off the avionics boxes (a typical King or Garmin volume knob costs 30 Euros to replace…) and the tyres braked flat after only three landings…
In the agreement I have with them, they are responsible for any damage they do. I’ve had the above mentioned ones plus two instances where after an intro flight the FI called me and said they might have braked too hard (the Mooney will make flat spots very easily). we checked the tires and found nothing immediately but at the next 50 hrs check we found a flat spot. We decided to share the cost for replacement on his insistence, for me, tires are if expensive but disposable material. As I said, it’s all a question of trust and knowing the people. All of the ones which fly now treat the airplane as if it was their own.
Peter wrote:
I would think a normal handheld GPS track log is tamper-proof enough. You can delete a whole flight but you can’t edit the track log.
I use a device which can not be modified by anyone but me. Also, I can track my plane on FR and do get the movement times at the homebase. The only discrepancy I ever found was a definite calculation mistake (to the bad of the pilot).
I am perfectly aware that sharing a plane with others is a risk, but it depends strongly who you do it with. I could not be happier with my folks.
Thread drift, but plane check also has a very nice Pilatus PC-7 on the market.
http://www.platinumfighters.com/pc-7
Definitely an advanced SKI aircraft (spend kids’ inheritance).
SN 001 no less.
This is the original prototype of the PC7, which became a massive success for the Pilatus company. It has been in private hands for many years. Somehow hope it will stay where it belongs, that is in Switzerland, or at least retain this historic registration.
She is in perfect shape as far as I know and has been very well cared for. Wonder why it gets sold.
