Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Biggin Hill EGKB now permanently PPR / general PPR discussion

So far, Biggin Hill used one of the few airports in UK which didn’t operate any PPR scheme.
As has been announced recently, this has now changed.

See the current NOTAM.

They want pilots to “book” PPR online only: https://www.bigginbooking.com/

Filling of a flightplan constitutes PPR. Hence, a separate PPR request has to be made only for flights without a flightplan. This excludes any international flight obviously. In fact, their online form includes many of the items of an ICAO flightplan, so it makes sense to file a flightplan (known format, etc.) rather than doing that PPR form.

Needless to say, utter nonsense yet again.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

What about diverting there?

This proposal cannot work.

It’s like Bournemouth… PPR. IME, ATC don’t care.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Not applicable for international movements as far as I can see – all non-flight planned aircraft movements be pre-notified

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

However, the filed FP isn’t going to be necessarily specifying Biggin Hill as the destination.

So… this just means you declare a mayday. I am not sure they exactly want that…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

At the risk of being controversial… I don’t understand what the big deal is. I don’t turn up at people’s houses uninvited either, even if I think I would be welcome. If I want to visit, I call first.

I never go anywhere without telephoning first. I don’t want to arrive somewhere and find that they are closed because the radios aren’t working or risk taxying on the grass if it might be waterlogged. I imagine that the act of calling for PPR also gives someone the opportunity to write out a briefing strip in advance. This PPR by website is basically the same thing. Why is that a problem?

On the odd occasion that I have had to divert to an unplanned airfield, a radio call with the briefest of explanations as to the reason for the diversion resulted in a welcome with open arms (and no landing fee). I would be surprised if any airfield had the same notification/PPR expectation for a genuine diversion as they would usually require for a planned trip.

EGTT, The London FIR

Well … Some consider an airport or an airfield as something similar as a highway or a road. Do you feel like calling the “road master” before traveling by car somewhere?

Frequent travels around Europe

Finners – If I have a charge for visiting my home then please just turn up with your cash in hand, no problem, however my home is not a public use airfield as is Biggin Hill. Why would non radio close an airfield,everyone has a hand held for emergency use?
Yes I know you are playing devil’s advocate here but this seems to be another expansion of the typical “British disease” assocaited with flying. Either airfields want business or they don’t so why put obstacles in the way?

UK, United Kingdom

If it is not organized or regulated like driving, why compare it? We all like to argue like that – but the reality is different. And it will unfortunately stay like that, or even become more regulated. That’s a pity, but we don’t have a powerful lobby fighting for us. AOPA can only do so much – and look how much power the big car clubs have!

I don’t understand what the big deal is. I don’t turn up at people’s houses uninvited either, even if I think I would be welcome. If I want to visit, I call first.

Thing is that landing at an airport is nowhere like coming to someone’s house.

It’s more like taking a walk in the park. Would you want to fill in online forms for that?

Biggin is a licensed airport, so anything of operational concern must and will be notamed. All tarmac, so no risk of waterlogging either.

It’s interesting that many pilots especially from the UK have no problem with that unnecessary PPR obsession. In general, pilots’ acceptance for odd stuff depends massively in where they come from. Most UK trained pilots embrace pointless PPR procedures. Most German pilots don’t think much is wrong about Flugleiters, etc. Still both are wrong.

Quote:

The need to introduce a permanent PPR status has been brought about by the increasingly complex task of integrating general aviation flights with corporate and business arrivals and departures. The benefit of PPR will be that ATC is able to pre-plan for busy periods of demand and this will result in fewer delays for all users”

Such “pre-planning” (with 30 minutes advance notice!) is mostly useless. It’s trying to plan something that can’t be planned. Most other (aeronautically developed) countries don’t even try that.

BTW, their distinction between “GA traffic” and “business traffic” is ridiculous.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 02 Jan 15:19
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I think the reality is that many airfields do make a distinction between light GA and “business traffic”. An open secret, perhaps.

My own base has a good amount of military fast jet, GA jet and TP traffic. There is no doubt that ATC prioritise that traffic. I may be given a circuitous taxi route, or asked to hold / orbit until a suitable slot for me is available. It is probably worth mentioning that safety does come first and if I need priority, it will be provided immediately and without question (experience!). Otherwise, the order of priority seems to be: IFR, >2000kg, <2000kg, training. I don’t really have a problem with that. Perhaps an interesting observation: all IFR traffic seems to be handled equally.

From a business point of view, it is sensible to prioritise the most profitable customers, up to a point. I am quite certain there is a lot more profit to be had from a biz-jet than from light GA. If the biz-jets have to wait whilst a stream of SEPs come and go, sooner or later, they will take their highly profitable custom elsewhere. In cases like Biggin Hill, SEP traffic is not their core business activity, but they accept us and allow us to use their spare capacity.

I recall reading elsewhere that one UK airfield (Welshpool, I believe) had very limited parking space recently due to waterlogging, so if several aircraft were to turn up unannounced, they may find themselves with nowhere to park. An unhelpful and unnecessary situation for everyone. Airfields may also have maintenance or other work being performed on or near the runway – it is helpful for them to know when aircraft are likely to turn up.

I call in advance even when PPR is not required. I do this for two reasons: one to obtain the latest information about the status of the airfield and current weather conditions and secondly, out of courtesy. Most airfields in the UK (and I suspect, Europe) are privately owned and operated and their availability for our use is a privilege and not a right, even when we are paying to do so. I believe that this is simply good citizenship and encourages a positive attitude towards the light GA community. This is exactly the same as when using any other privately owned resource – it is polite to ask first. Maybe I’m too nice.

EGTT, The London FIR
131 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top