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Can one file Eurocontrol IFR flight plans for Class G?

It is suggested here that you can, but I have never seen this.

The “airway” system is all in CAS.

All European IFR is filed in CAS although sometimes one can fly OCAS on the actual flight.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In Sweden controlled airspace starts at FL095, except for control zones and TMAs that are lower. The rest of the airspace is class G.
There is no problem whatsoever in filing a flightplan (and flying it) at a lower flightlevel/altitude than FL095.

ESTL

I’ve done it in Norway, too (as I have in Sweden).

I have also filed IFR to my home field in France, which is inside class G.

Actually I don’t think I even understand the question. Why would you not be able to, i.e. which rule or system would prevent you from doing so?

Can you also clarify what you mean by a “Eurocontrol” flight plan?

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 06 Dec 09:00

Eurocontrol = IFPS = CFMU.

The sort of flight plans you file with the euroga router / autorouter.

For example you cannot get a FP to validate (and therefore you cannot file it) from EGKA to EGMD at 2000ft. That is wholly in Class G. Can that be done in Norway or Sweden?

NOTE that you can “file” an “I” flight plan EGKA DCT EGMD but it will get thrown out by London Control so while it remains “filed” there will be no service and no clearance, beyond a VFR flight.

Can you file a FP in say Norway which is in Class G and halfway passes through some CAS and you have an implied clearance through that CAS? That is what a Eurocontrol flight plan would give you – an implied whole-route clearance.

Filing IFR to/from a Class G airport is a different issue and in many/most places you can do that. In the UK you can, in Germany you can’t (has to be Z/Y), etc. But I am referring to enroute flight.

Normally the validation requires the route to be on published airways, or using published DCTs, although additional DCTs can be filed too in certain situations (e.g. where the DCT does not exceed the DCT MAX for the airspace).

@achimha and @tomjnx are the two developers of this router but they have not been here for ages.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sure.

Autorouter from ESMY to ESMG. Altitude 4000ft. The route is completely in class G airspace. Neither ESMY nor EMSG have any intrument approaches, or any tower, or AFIS.

Skydemon map.

ESTL

I flew to Gdansk EPGD and most of my flight over Poland was in uncontrolled airspace.
This is a valid Eurocontrol flightplan which will be in uncontrolled airspace, except for the TMA around Gdansk.

EPSC N0106F080 GOMEX DCT AGODU DCT MALOX DCT WIC DCT OGDAV OGDAV2R EPGD

You can file EHRD – WOODY IFR – EBAW at an altitude of 2000 feet and it will validate (Z flight plan). Technically, it even validates at e.g. 1500 feet altitude.

EHRD, Netherlands

OK… you can file a Class G FP in the UK and it will often validate if you use DCTs, but it will not be “in the system” and your flight is like a VFR flight i.e. no implied clearance.

This has varied in the UK but right now you can file e.g. this but it will be thrown out by the UK end despite having been accepted by IFPS and when you come to depart you find the FP is either gone or is just a VFR one.

So if there was a bit of CAS halfway, you get no right to cross it. Would you get that in say Norway or Sweden?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In my very limited experience in Poland you either contact Approach, or Info will coordinate clearances to cross TMAs, for CTRs you usually need to contact Tower. Saying “as filed” is usually enough. FWIW, when it doesn’t cause unneeded overhead, we file VFR plans via IFR points. Granted, all this is for short flights, 200nm or so, originating in G airspace, terminating in a controlled field (which is the reason a plan is required).
edit: yes, I do the thread is about IFR and I am talking about VFR plans

Last Edited by tmo at 06 Dec 10:44
tmo
EPKP - Kraków, Poland

Peter wrote:

So if there was a bit of CAS halfway, you get no right to cross it. Would you get that in say Norway or Sweden?

Yes – once you have established communication with ATS you will receive a clearance and from there on you do no longer need to worry about controlled airspace and restricted areas. The only time you need to be aware of airspace is right after departure. You must make sure to not enter controlled airspace before contacting ATS.

ESTL
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