Also keep in mind that in most installations, the waste gate is open below a certain MP*atmospheric pressure so the turbo will be cold and rested after touchdown and a bit of taxi doesn’t get it excited. To me this “let turbo spin down for 2 min before killing engine” is mostly an OWT.
Alexis wrote:
Standing still with the engines running only lets the oil temperature go up.
Compared to the exhaust gas temperature which is what the turbocharger mainly “sees”, 20 or 30 degrees more oil temperature is negligible… Just look at one with the cowling removed and in low light conditions. After landing or after a ground run it will glow orange. After a couple of minutes at idle the glowing will be gone.
what_next wrote:
And after landing never forget to observe the 2 minute cooling period for the turbocharger…
O W T !
Some years ago, some reputable engine people (including George Braly, IIRC), put multiple probes on the turbo itself and then documented the temps in different phases of flight and all the way to shut down.
The results showed that the turbo reached it’s lowest temp @ touch-down, then warmed up a bit during the taxi.
Running the engine for 2 minutes or some such is a waste of time.
It’s all down to car turbo engines where you still hear “after a period of hard driving, let your turbo cool down” – that (including the 2min recommended cooldown time) has been transposed identically to planes without supporting data, without any regard for the 10-odd minute cooldown you get during descent…
The cooldown requirement is probably more applicable to aircraft diesel engines which have a much higher turbo boost than gasoline engines and where the turbo has to work hard even for lower power settings.
In my setup, the turbo only provides boost above 29" at MSL, otherwise the exhaust exits through the wastegate. No way I get near those 29" when approaching an airport or taxiing around.
Well, this 2min period is real on planes as well.
On my ROTAX914, If I don’t let the turbo cool down before stopping engine after a run-up, I get a “bang” from the exhaust and carbon residue in the oil.
Well, descend+taxi time is typically more then 2min at low power. So these 2min are only relevant if you run the engine at high power on the ground (e.g. run-up) and not after a flight.
ploucandco wrote:
Well, this 2min period is real on planes as well.
Of course it is. During operations the turbocharger is glowing red as already written. Shutting it down in that state means that any residual oil in it’s bearings will burn or evaporate, leaving the bearings unprotected. As I already wrote above, the final stages of the landing at low power and taxi time count toward those (arbitrary) two minutes, so in most cases it will not be necessary to wait any more before shutting the engine down.
BTW: My car (petrol, not diesel) also has a wastegate controlled turbocharger. Still one can hear it spool down after every engine stop, so not every wastegate will bypass the TC at low power. With my car I also observe the cooling down period and always drive at very reduced power for the last couple of kilometers. The engine has 18 years and 360000km now and neither it not the TC have required any repairs so far. I attribute that – in part at least – to my “cooling down” routine.
I can only go by my experiences with P210N it was a 1979. I flew it in the mid teens but have flown it as high as 22,000’ I never seemed to have heat problems although Ive heard some others having it. The baffles need to be good. The airplane did have an intercooler mod. Never had CHTs above 390F and more like 380F CHT. It really is not a difficult airplane to fly. Its a wonderful IFR platform cause it is so stable. The controls are heavier than my C210 and could not carry as much in the cabin due to the pressure Bulkhead. I regularly flew with 4 male adults with ski gear including skis in my C210 but could not do that with the P210. Someone did have an STC for a ski pod.
I did go to Flight Safety and the course was very good to understand systems as well as how to fly the airplane by the numbers.
There are no Main Gear doors on any P210 1979 or later. The 210 gear is fine as long as you have good maintenance done on them. People get into trouble when unqualified people work on the gears.
Maintenance is more expensive cause it takes time to take apart all the stuff crammed into the engine compartment to get at things. Thats what drives up the costs.
The P210 was my dream plane when I was 19 and took my PPL. I think they look great. Seems like an ideal size IFR platform in Europe as well. But an older Malibu will have better pressurization.
I think there is a lot of misunderstandings about the P210.
Most of the observations mentioned above is based on P210’s that hasn’t been maintained properly, or just operated wrong.
I have spent the last 4 years bringing a P210 back to life. It was stored properly, but far from properly maintained.
So after getting the pressurisation system fixed and dialled in, it performed flawlessly.
Of course as most of you mention, the engine struggles with CHT during climb.
The new engine monitors makes a HUGE difference in an aircraft like the P210.
Working the baffles and going over the whole engine compartment has made a big difference for me.
Even on the hottest days, I can keep the CHT’s below 390 and still climb with 600’/min at Gross.
NOPE, you wont be able to get to FL200 or higher at Gross. Never could.
But you can comfortably get to FL170. And that solves a lot of issues enroute IFR. Weather and direct routing.
After installing GAMI’s, I can do 180TAS at FL160 burning 15,5 GAL/HR. Thats not bad.
If not a Gross+ and ISA+15, I can normally climb LOP at 17GAL/HR with a reduction in clim of about 100’/min. Thats not bad either.
You can more or less throw whatever you want in the 210’s. You will not fall outside the CG limits. Thats great
With a spare tank(baggage 29GAL), you get a range of 6:30 inc 45min reserve = 1170nm. Thats awesome
Most P210’s are de-iced. Not for sustained time in Ice, but at least to get out of it. Pretty effective too. Thats good to have.
So whoever is keen on having the capabilities above without wanting to pay 1/2mil $, should consider the P210.
Or you can put the O2 hoses up your wife and kid’s nose. That was not an option for me.
The only thing we are missing is a onboard wc :)
All above said, the P210 is not a plane you just pick up cheap somewhere.
The good examples are priced right, and those who aren’t operating well is cheap.
If you go for the cheap variant, then expect a lot of time and money to fix and tune it right.
If you do a proper prebuy and have a good P210 mechanic available, the P210 ownership is no big issue.
Buy a lemon, then use the overpriced European shops that have to learn how the P210 works, and you are in for a nasty surprise.
For whoever is considering buying a P210, reach out to those owners who own one, and are active owners, and you will get the right advice.
Don’t let yourself be discouraged by OWT and those who think they know how the P210 works.
The introduction of electronic engine monitors have changed the game. So has installation of GAMI’s.
The sharing of information on the online Forums have made the P210 raise from the ashes.
It is one of the best performers vs cost that I could find.
If money is no subject, then buy yourself something that burn Jet Fuel to do the same mission.
