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Channel Crossing (merged thread)

Peter wrote:

As an update: I departed Alderney yesterday and was assigned 2000ft as usual. I asked for higher “there is a lot of water down there” and the ATCO said they are aware of some recent issues with this (probably they read EuroGA; they are kind enough to leave the leaflet stand there ) and will get me higher as soon as I change to Jersey.

Nice to see some progress coming out of EuroGA shared stories, at least they did not reply “are you afraid to get wet”?

Not sure about Guernsey/Alderney departures, but with Jersey you can get 1500ft initially with tower and to expect 5000ft with approach all sorted while on the threshold before entering the runway…

Last Edited by Ibra at 15 Jul 11:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I went to Guernsey on Saturday and had the same. VFR departure initially cleared at 2000’ to the north, so I asked TWR for higher and they said, “no, but ask APP”. I asked APP, who cleared me not above 5000’. No problem.

Despite Fort le Marchant VRP sounding more French than English, you need to say it in a British accent for ATC to understand you

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

As an update: I departed Alderney yesterday and was assigned 2000ft as usual. I asked for higher “there is a lot of water down there” and the ATCO said they are aware of some recent issues with this (probably they read EuroGA; they are kind enough to leave the leaflet stand there ) and will get me higher as soon as I change to Jersey.

I got the change to Jersey on reaching the 2000ft and they cleared me immediately to the filed altitude of 5000ft.

So things are working well now.

I did file IFR, although at 5000ft this in “practically VFR” in UK airspace since London Control won’t touch you, and the moment you leave the C.I. zone you are treated as VFR traffic.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

One often gets that route at 500ft or 1000ft. I got it in 2014 and got loads of great photos. Forum thread here. But the risk was very real. You would barely do a radio call if the engine failed. I got the same coming back from Brac to Cannes in 2017.

Re the subject Q, I am happy to cross the Channel at 4700ft, which is a good level to leave the south coast at. CAS base is 5500ft there and I used to fly at 5300ft but with the new CAA no-prisoners policy I think 4700 is better. 5000 is not so good because some IFR traffic might be there, e.g. ATPL schools doing VOR holds around SFD etc.

Even better to go IFR of course, say FL080-100, but unless the handover to London Control is pretty quick you will still be levelling off “OCAS” for a few minutes. And if going from Shoreham directly south, they sometimes don’t get back to you until you are in French airspace. Or you are under the FL075 bit of CAS which, if you filed for say FL070, they won’t “do” you anyway… Coming back to Shoreham is simpler; London Control give you a “descent out of CAS” and you just adjust the VS so you descend to circuit height from say 30nm out.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Colin wrote:

My recent clearance for the Nice low level corridor over the sea, was not above 500ft.

Yes and you usually cross many copters… some of them not even in contact with controls :(.

LFMD, France

Nice topic I didn’t get into. Being south of France, I feel concerned as Corsica or Italy are not far. I have to say their radio is awful (Italy). About the clearances:

Yes, in France,VFR pilots are supposed and taught (maybe not since long ago) to read back :
Take off /landing clearances
Taxi clearances
CAS clearances

what I see is that they are usually implicit for TMA and CTR, here in the south, but the military P zone do read back the clearances.
What I have been taught is that you shouldn’t penetrate a CTR or a TMA unless radio contact and intentions, and I often had to circle wait to enter Cannes CTR when busy while at school. But never again I have seen a VFR plane waiting for radio contact to enter a CTR or even the D54 around Le Luc, although it could lead to a fine. Actually most of time, we are baby cared by Nice-Info FIS, who forwards intentions to Tower ATCs, and often when we contact tower ATC, they just said “F-xxxx identified, report there, 1000ft”. They are actually really great, and I have not seen such pro-activity somewhere else.
But what I was taught “in bold” is that ATC is at our service, and not the contrary. We need to fulfill the rules but they have to ease our flight, and in this mind, I understand the guy who file a MOR for the ATC not giving priority to the safety. It should happen more times so that it become usual.
It sometimes happen over Mediterranean but again, ATC is convenient and usually don’t wait too much before giving a nice FL (>50) if requested, and despite the fact that VFR transit entry and exit points are in the middle or LFMN, LFMD, LFKC, LFKB, LFKJ approaches.

LFMD, France

My recent clearance for the Nice low level corridor over the sea, was not above 500ft.

EGLK, United Kingdom

Yesterday crossed twice in 5000ft (due to vfr).
In summer, daylight, many ships around, with vests/plb/raft that’s ok.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Well, somebody had a go, filing an MOR over ATC’s refusal to let him go above 2000ft. Unfortunately I can’t find a URL for this but here it is

It may actually be a scenario where the IMCR is usable on a Eurocontrol flight plan, because you can go IFR to FL080 in Class D (on a carefully chosen route). Normally the IMCR is useless with a Eurocontrol flight plan because ATC can send you into Class A. And an IFR flight can get a higher altitude.

The IMCR is useless for inland IFR flying on a Eurocontrol FP because you will quickly be vectored into Class A. This did happen years ago and drove ATC nuts, and IMHO this partially led to the present London Control policy of ditching FPs which are filed partly below CAS (below Class A); they want to make sure no IMCR pilots do this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I agree with Alioth. The engine needs fuel, and if you fly it, say, a half hour before crossing and the engine instrument readouts are stable, and you don’t change the settings before the crossing, the risk of a sudden total failure is very low.
On the channel there are many ships, so there’s a big chance you can ditch close to one of them. A radio communicator with the marine frequencies, which are higher than the aviation frequencies, in the 156k+ VHF range, may come in handy if you feel the ELT didn’t do its job. I personally don’t cross the channel without a raft and life vests, because I don’t want to challenge fate that way…..
And I also agree, the worst problem VFR over water is the horizon blending in with the sky even in an otherwise pretty decent VFR weather.

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany
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