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Check AIP interpretation - VFR EDTY to LOIH

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Hi All,

Spent the morning trawling the German and Austrian AIPs to check details for a flight tomorrow.

There are still a few gaps in my understanding because the AIPs do not always seem amazingly clear.

Flight from EDTY to LOIH and back, I understand that there is no need for a flight plan PROVIDING the border crossing is directly Germany/Austria with no third party country (I.e. don’t clip Swiss airspace); no need for customs as it is Schengen Area flight.

Is it a correct understanding, that basically it is operationally similar to a normal domestic German flight.

Cheers

Jon

Please don’t flame me… I spotted my error… Schengen is Immigration not Customs

So should read no need for customs as EU and no need for immigration because Schengen.

An intra-Schengen flight does not need an airport with Customs or Immigration, and can pass through the airspace of a country which is non Schengen, non EU, whatever.

It is only the 3rd World (Africa and such, loosely speaking) where you need overflight permits to pass through somebody’s airspace (noncommercial GA I mean).

EuroGA is one forum where you won’t get flamed I’ve spent years on all the others and we are not having anything like that here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I know I won’t get flamed Peter, it is a great forum. I was kind of flaming myself though… what a school boy error.

So all I think I need to understand is the flight plan requirement. ENR 1.10 of the Austrian AIP lays it out beautifully. So I know for the return leg I dont need a flight plan.

I can’t find anything in the German AIP about when a flight plan is required. ENR 1.10 seems to be a complete guide on how to fill in the ICAO form.

I also don’t have any reference for this – I was under the impression I need one for a crossing into Austria from Germany until one day in August I diverted from a planned destination in Germany to an unplanned destination in Austria (LOLW) and asked Munich Information if they could file my flight plan ad-hoc. I then learned I would have needed one for Linz LOWL but not for Wels LOLW.

Essen-Mülheim (EDLE), Düsseldorf (EDDL), Paderborn (EDLP), Mönchengladbach (EDLN), Germany

For a flight from Germany to Austria in general you do not need a flight plan. But remember you need a flight plan for all VFR flights departing or leaving controlled airfields in Austria. This is an Austrian thing and often leads to confusion among foreign pilots.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

what a school boy error

I don’t think so. You would be amazed. I would bet 99% of UK PPL holders don’t understand the Schengen concept. I did a presentation on this a couple of years ago for which I produced some material (see VFR flying to Europe) but even there I have it wrong for Switzerland and Norway which are Schengen but not EU, though I got it right for Greece which is Schengen but ignores it And I forgot to mention in there that every German airport has “Immigration available on PNR” which has been a closely guarded secret, only known to 1 or 2 high-activity German pilots I know of.

Great stuff…

The German-Austrian no-FP concession is such a unique thing in Europe (in some countries you need, either absolutely or practically, a FP for every internal flight) and filing VFR FPs is so easy nowadays, that I would just stick one in for every trip crossing national borders.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

And I forgot to mention in there that every German airport has “Immigration available on PNR”

No, only some airfields do (“Grenzübergangspunkte” — border points). Customs and immigration are two different federal police units and there can be a disparity. Immigration is available more frequenctly because the border police delegate the border control to AFIS (“Hilfspolizist” — auxiliary police) so they have little reason to withdraw the status whereas customs require staff and have been constantly withdrawing customs status from airfields in line with closing customs branches. You can have customs at every German airfield (even your private heliport) but it costs like 150 €.

The German-Austrian no-FP concession is such a unique thing in Europe

Same for Germany-Czech Republic and Germany-Poland, the latter also restricted to uncontrolled airfields.

that I would just stick one in for every trip crossing national borders.

No harm in doing so but and maybe easier for occasional visitors.

I must have got Germany confused with Italy – easily done; the food is the same

Italian Immigration concession

You can have customs at every German airfield (even your private heliport) but it costs like 150 €.

What use is that (Customs without Immigration) in practice? It appears useful only for flights to/from Norway or Switzerland…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks for the clarifications all…

But Peter!

I must have got Germany confused with Italy – easily done; the food is the same…

I hope you are being sarcastic haha!

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