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Cirrus Jet (combined thread)

300kts TAS. That’s bloody rubbish for a jet.

RVSM also needs operator approval, which is another can of worms.

London area

Would the Cirrus jet be covered (for EASA FCL, if/when the current derogation(s) end) by the same HPA as say a TBM?

Under FAA rules you must have a Type Rating for any turbo*jet*, which is not the case for any sub-5700kg (12500lb) propeller aircraft no matter how powered. So even if the EASA FCL stuff got kicked into the long grass and you could just fly wholly on your FAA papers, you will still need to get the TR for this one.

RVSM also needs operator approval, which is another can of worms.

What is involved?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
RVSM also needs operator approval, which is another can of worms.
What is involved?

Checklists, equipment signoffs, training in RVSM usage, a long wait as to get any LoA from the FAA now takes forever. Same with ADS-B and P-RNAV.

EGTK Oxford

Checklists, equipment signoffs, training in RVSM usage, a long wait as to get any LoA from the FAA now takes forever. Same with ADS-B and P-RNAV.

Is this just with the NY IFO? My reading of AC20-96a chg1 is that any FSDO can issue a LoA….presumably after making an appointment and visiting them in person…

(2) Part 91 Aircraft/Operator Approval. U.S. part 91 operators present the
documentation received from the ACO to their FSDO and evidence of meeting the requirements
contained in appendix 2, paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 of this AC. The FSDO issues LOA or similar
operational approval documentation authorizing P-RNAV operations to part 91 operators.

Last Edited by AnthonyQ at 01 Dec 18:37
YPJT, United Arab Emirates

Presumably this is why so many bizjets are M-reg. The IOM CAA does that paperwork very quickly. The price you pay is full Part M maintenance, but people with jets probably don’t care…

Yes any FSDO can do the LoA but as a result of turf wars within the FAA, only the NY IFU “officially” covers Europe and some other regions (I believe Africa and Middle East). This causes many problems to aircraft owners, because the NY IFU runs itself like this, as a renegade outpost of the FAA which if they say No leaves you with very few options.

So when I phoned them up about doing a field approval for an EHSI installation, one character I got said “an EHSI is EFIS and thus needs an STC, so no way”, following which I carefully explained what an EFIS is, and he shouted around his office for a second opinion and when I heard the “Yeah, Yeah” replies I gave up, and via a now-retired FSDO inspector I found on a US pilot forum I got an FSDO in California to do a 100% legit gold-plated field approval and a custom AFMS approved by an ACO up the road from him

The obvious way to get the paperwork for an N-reg bizjet is to pop over with the jet to the USA and drop into an FSDO out there! And same with any high value avionics installs, etc. It’s just not practical to do that with a TB20 – 30-40hrs airborne time each way.

It may be possible to the LoA for an N-reg aircraft by using a US-based contact to present the papers to his local FSDO, but I don’t know of anybody who has done this for the PRNAV & RVSM LoAs.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I like the Part 121 requirements for quick donning oxygen masks, and the requirement to wear oxygen above FL 250 if one of the required crew has left the cockpit – which for single crew implies wearing oxygen in the cruise. You also have a rule above FL410 even when both crew are at their station.

The single pilot personal jets never seem to mention this sensible precaution, despite several high profile Part 91 accidents due to pressurisation problems.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

The IoM are in general very good, but have the odd wobbly. They used to allow all M reg to fly RNAV approaches but “accidentally” removed it and forgot to notify the change leaving people unwittingly flying RNAV approaches without approval.

London area

The SF50 makes very little sense form an economics standpoint. Rubbish speed, rubbish altitude, high fuel burn, crappy range etc. But that won’t matter at all in the end – it will sell like crazy. But I will be able to outrun it in a Commander 1000, burning less fuel, higher, RSVM:ed, further and with a full cabin of 8 – for less than half the money.

The original concept for the SF50 was for it to be an easy upgrade path for SR22 owners, available about five years ago and for sub $1M. Personally, I think that delivering that “vision” five years ago would have created a new niche that Cirrus might have done very well from as they have with the SR2X.

Sadly, though, the price is now over double that, it’s five years late and quite a number of the early position holders have given up and bought something else. Also, for a time, Cirrus gave away a number of “free” jet positions to people buying new SR22s and there was a queue of people waiting for refunds on their deposits.

For me, it’s a good idea with a great future behind it: it has lost its way.

EGSC

It’s a pity that among the “big money classes” jet=sex and everything else is secondary.

A modern turboprop, even with the 50 year old PT6 up front, would outclass the Cirrus jet on absolutely every measure except sex appeal.

And there is a proven market which doesn’t rely on pure blind “must have a jet” sex appeal: look at the TBM and the PC12.

The Kestrel is stuck, presumably due to a lack of funding, but Cirrus could have done it by now, easily. I am sure they have enough money even with today’s declining sales compared to 5-10 years ago.

The basic “TBM eater” formula is sooo obvious – explored lately by Epic, Kestrel, and if you want a slightly smaller hull size (a 4 seater only) look at the Lancair Evolution which is just a beautiful composite design…

Traditional high-end GA Marketing would say that you must have a 6 seater with a staircase entry because anything in that price range has to have that for sex appeal, and they are probably right for the current market sector (TBM, PC12) but that sector is pretty well taken care of by, ahem, Socata and Pilatus… (2 different markets there actually).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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