I don’t know, and unfortunately we have little data since the obvious previous comparable player (for Europe, Socata) is no longer there.
Peter,
500 K€ was the amount I had in mind too, it sounds like a fair and highly competitive offer and one would think it should attract new customers. But then, are there any new customers there at all, never mind the price ? The way I see it is that young people are only marginally interested in aviation and if they are, the goal is almost always a right seat in an airline cockpit. For GA airplanes other than the basic C172 or PA28 there seems to be zero interest. For people with real money it will be a turboprop.
Maybe I got it all wrong but that’s my general impression.
The Commander is not worse on MPG than anything else retractable of that size/shape e.g. a TB20. Those numbers are what I get too.
A diesel would be a nice idea in theory but an awfully risky bit of marketing even in Europe. Close to zero demand in the US, too, and that takes out most of the volume. Diesel, for use where there is no avgas, makes a lot of sense in a utility type e.g. a C182.
If they could do it for say 500k € it would sell.
Adam,
I’m not sure if you can say the old Lycos are all that inefficient except if you compare them to diesels of course. Once they are well tuned and leaned their power output is quite acceptable.
Our Commander 114B cruises at around 145 TAS @ 8000’ for 60% power setting on 10.5 USG/hour.
Cruising over 150 kts is achieved easily if one accepts the higher consumption. Ok Bonanzas and Mooneys go faster but the significant larger cabin and 2-door entry comfort makes it up.
Maybe a high end powerful Diesel combined with a Commander-like comfort would be the answer.
Its funny, the Cirrus is ice-cold to me a s consumer. There is a merit for something else. But I do agree it needs a chute. Don’t even try anything else.
Commander was always a plush little Cadillac. Probably the most comfy GA airplane on the market and pretty easy in the eyes, too. But this comfyness resulted in a slower plane for the hp. Some people put up with that, others didn’t. Today – would anyone tolerate those for a dino-Lycoming? I’m not sure. Might look good on paper for a revival, but in reality?
I met a guy selling Cirrus aircraft. I’m fairly sure there was no huge ‘dealer’ set up behing him, he was directly Cirrus. He would fly all around Europe demonstrating the aircraft.
I’m not exactly sure what the critera was but it’s probably quite self censoring in terms of beneficial interest. There can’t be many people who would arrange a demo and let the guy fly 3 hrs to meet you so you can kick the tyres.
I’m sure this is the way to go for expensive toys.
I’ve met the guy that does the same for TBM too.
Sure, but that just means Mooney had crappy marketing.
On the topic of the Commander, this baggage potentially is not an issue.
If your marketing is crap, dealers won’t help you. Look at Socata…
Peter wrote:
Not wishing to be obtuse but a factory which forces to buy only via dealers is only going to sell via dealers
Or a company which is not really very adept in marketing and therefore does not succeed where dealers do… more likely that was the case here.
Peter wrote:
It’s time to do something quite different!
Like this:
Had a visit from my inspector yesterday. He came straight from Switzerland having visiting Kopter. They (Helitrans) had ordered 12 or 18 of those, but have to wait a bit more due to some manufacturing issues. Brand new design, carbon fiber, all glass, FADEC.
I mean, this is what the GA market wants, and is willing to pay for. Re-starting some 60s manufacturing for the purpose of selling to private individuals sounds to me like a dead end.
well, yes, the simple issue was that without them they would not have sold any at all.
Not wishing to be obtuse 
but a factory which forces to buy only via dealers is only going to sell via dealers Without dealers, Mooney’s price would have been some 15-20% lower and they would have sold more as a result. Nobody needs dealers these days, especially Mooney owners who have got decades of practice of avoiding the Mooney parts supply pipeline – example
Socata got p1ssed off with its dealers eventually and started selling TBMs directly. Probably unofficially but AIUI this led directly to Air Touring’s collapse (UK and Germany). They always sold used planes direct.
In order to make new products viable, certification must change in a big way.
I think that is largely a myth – unless one makes the argument that one can install uncertified avionics which indeed are quite a bit cheaper. Albeit with some dodgy features like the “new autopilots” not doing ILS, or not having pitch trim.
Commander are much better placed to restart, IMHO. Much better than Socata even though Socata have a more modern airframe – because Socata are almost unknown in the US market.
It’s time to do something quite different!
