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Comparing national registrations

Life is all about compromises. Not least in (private) aviation. How often have we said “to each their own”…

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Timothy wrote:

various bits of equipment gold plating (compulsory autopilot? Multiple 8.33? I can’t remember all the details.)

Well, equipment requirements should be unified by Part-NCO (at least the numbers should be the same as I imagine it’s hard to interpret “one” as “two”). Once that is in force, a national authority has to live with it.

I don’t think an autopilot is an unreasonable requirement for single-pilot IFR. I guess you’re referring to the German rule which I think was that you either need a working autopilot or a second pilot (IIRC, qualified at least for radio work). The heavier single-pilot metal (as far as I have seen) does have autopilot in its minimum equipment list for single-pilot operations anyway. Without it, you need a second pilot (the question of qualifications is interesting since there are no multi-pilot type ratings for single-pilot certified aeroplanes AFAIK).

Life is all about compromises. Not least in (private) aviation. How often have we said “to each their own”…

Of course, but ownership and having to cost share to fly is making one step forward and 0.9 of a step backwards.

I don’t know of a scenario (I can think of at least 3 right away) where this has not turned into a disaster.

If you are funding-limited you are far better off to get into a syndicate, where the fixed costs are shared but the DOC obviously isn’t. Then you get the benefit of saving a lot of money without being bent over a barrel as who to fly with.

Most people fairly rapidly run out of “nice” people to fly with (such is the “social scene” around GA) and they will run out of them faster if they demand money for every flight.

I don’t think an autopilot is an unreasonable requirement for single-pilot IFR

IFR (in IMC) is bloody hard without an autopilot.

Yes, I too have heard from people who can hand fly this while reading a book but they aren’t common, off forums

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Most people fairly rapidly run out of “nice” people to fly with …

It’s not so much about the being “nice”. One must be totally crazy to go anywhere cost-sharing in a piston single when Easyjet or Ryanair (or Hop! or Vueling or Germanwings or whoever) will take you there in a nice big quiet comfortable airliner in no time, charging you only a small fraction of the cost…

As Peter says: If cost sharing passengers are a requirement to finance the aeroplane this adventure is going to end in tears. An alternative would be to lease the aircraft to a flying school during weekdays (we did that with one aircraft I had a share in). Typically there will be an instructor on board most of the time which means the aircraft isn’t abused too much – other then with some syndicates.

EDDS - Stuttgart

@LeSving

You got that wrong. I will not buy a plane without 8.33-VHF (or at least the amount off what it will cost)

The issue is about whether you need one or two 8.33 radios for an IFR certification (D-reg) or
whether you are allowed to leave a 25 NavCom unit installed despite having a full 8.33-unit installed, e.g. GNS430/530 (PH-reg)

...
EDM_, Germany

An alternative would be to lease the aircraft to a flying school during weekdays (we did that with one aircraft I had a share in). Typically there will be an instructor on board most of the time which means the aircraft isn’t abused too much – other then with some syndicates.

I tried that 2002-2006.

I got far less usage than they promised – it was claimed this was because I required dual flying i.e. no self fly hire, and most people who qualify then want to rent the plane.

And 2 of the instructors involved turned out to be crooks, fiddling with the fuel totaliser, pocketing duty drawbacks, etc.

The final option is to not be so fussy, and then the plane will gradually get shagged.

To keep this on-topic, yes you can’t do this with an N-reg plane.

However, there are so few schools operating Euro registrations outside their own country that I think there is more to this. Until recently, a UK school could absolutely not operate say a D-reg (because a D-reg was “foreign reg” and the flight became Aerial Work i.e. subject to the Secretary of State permission requirement which N-reg owners will be very familiar with) but today, in theory, it should be possible. Or why aren’t German schools moving to G-reg, when it is supposedly so great? There has to be more to this….

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Pride and prejudice? ;)

Or why aren’t German schools moving to G-reg, when it is supposedly so great? There has to be more to this….

What might an upcoming " BREXIT " mean to non-British owners ( within the EU ) of aircraft on G-reg? Does it mean they have to find a new country to register or do they now have to pay customs / VAT belatedly ?

EDxx, Germany

nobbi wrote:

What might an upcoming " BREXIT " mean to non-British owners ( within the EU ) of aircraft on G-reg? Does it mean they have to find a new country to register or do they now have to pay customs / VAT belatedly ?

Aviation will be the least of our worries if Brexit occurs.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Previous threads on the EU exit here and here

FWIW, if Thursday’s vote is OUT then nothing will happen for a while – anything up to about 2 years.

But yes if the UK is non-EU then moving a plane permanently from the UK to say Germany after the UK has formally left the EU will attract import VAT in Germany. There is no duty on aircraft.

This already happens on moves from say Jersey to the UK. Somebody I know posted on a forum that he got busted for the VAT; years afterwards I believe.

And of course it already happens USA to anywhere in the EU…

I don’t think the aircraft reg is anything to do with it – other than to do with some national rule about long term basing limits being different for EU-reg. Many threads on that, especially on homebuilts where there is a common distinction between ECAC-reg and others. Will a non-EU UK still be ECAC?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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