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Composite signal to KI-229

I have gone through most of the installation manuals for what was installed in the aircraft earlier and what is installed now, and I cannot find any need for the 2 wires I have found. They are not cut, but properly terminated with heat shrink.

Both the 26v 400hz (Vor Hi) pin 32, and OBI COS LO pin 7, are always marked as NC (I guess N-ot C-onnected).

And to run the KI-229 from the KI525, only these wires are needed:

So I guess I can just leave it as it is.

spirit49
LOIH

Peter is right on this one. The ils energize is a discrete signal which switches the CDI from VOR to LOC mode, depending on the frequency selected. The NAV receiver knows by the selected frequency and the frequency VOR / LOC/GS allocation wheter a selected frequency is a VOR frequency of a LOC frequency. Operation of VOR and LOC modes is completely different. Therefore an insturment which works on a composite signal requires information on how to process the received composite signal. The ils energize wires fulfills this task.

As the RMI does indicate to VOR / ADF only, it uses the ILS energize discrete to park itselfs in horizontal position when a localizer frequency is selected.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

3 o’clock I think.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The ILS Energise is – I believe – used to park the VOR needle when an ILS frequency is selected on the NAV radio

How do you park the VOR needle on a DMI? Relative bearing 360°?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The KI229 needs only the composite for the VOR needle.

The ILS Energise is – I believe – used to park the VOR needle when an ILS frequency is selected on the NAV radio, to avoid confusing indications.

The 400Hz input is still required for the compass ring – as discussed earlier in the thread. Same applies to the XY inputs which determine the compass indication of the ring.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Having the RMI re-wired as we speak. Extracted VOR/LOC COMPOSITE OUT (#1004 pin 8) and ILS ENERGIZE (#P1004 pin 29) from the GTN-650.
Both connected over the RMI NAV1/NAV2 selection switch.

While measuring and cleaning up the wires from the RMI, we found a unused cable. Shielded with 2 wires. Measuring to the PINOUT we found these to be OBI COS LO (pin 7) and 26 VAC 400HZ (VOR HI) [Pin 32] on the KI-229.

Looking at the PINOUT from the previously installed KNS-81, I believe that it only needed ILS Energize + VOR Comp Out to run the RMI.

So why we now suddenly found this un-used cable is a mystery.

Any ideas?!

Last Edited by spirit49 at 26 Jan 17:40
spirit49
LOIH

Only ones that have been pirated are avalable.

Which is close to all of them… You just need contacts in low places

Also I would not use the word “pirated”. These are not secret documents, with some inherent value or a purchase price. They are just restricted by the manufacturers, so that only dealers can get them, which is done to support the authorised dealers and to make it harder for freelance installers to do anything. It is IMHO a pure restrictive practice because an installer who can do the work legally but is not an authorised dealer (and the client is aware of possible warranty implications – this is by itself yet another restrictive practice which would IMHO be illegal in the EU) should be just fine to do the work.

Honeywell/BK gave up on their controlled circulation years ago and most of the manuals for their old stuff (which is almost all they make ) are online. Garmin are a lot tighter but a few years ago they had a big leak whereby google managed to index up their dealer website, and some people then wrote scripts to download the google links. So a lot of G500 and G1000 manuals escaped into the wild back then.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jesse

It may all be in the Garmin manuals but they tell their dealers not to release the manuals to anyone.

Only ones that have been pirated are avalable.

The KG-102 loading doesn’t matter in this case, it doesn’t change as the KI-229 is already installed

I guess I was thinking that it may already be working marginally…

I know that in my TB20, where (prior to all this being ripped out for the SG102 AHRS, etc) the XYZ output of the KG102A was driving the KI525 HSI, the WX500 stormscope, and the KI229 RMI, the KI229 installation needed, strictly speaking, the MD26. Without that (and yes, of course, Air Touring did it without it initially, true to form) the RMI bearing ring worked intermittently.

Specifically I think it is the “Z” output (which is just a 400Hz “sinewave”) is the limiting factor, and that is where you need to use the external inverter.

some others will not approve installation of anything that is not published in wiring diagrams by manufacturers, like this solution.

True. But I would not go anywhere near an avionics shop that does that. Fortunately I have not come across any as yet. Installing non-STCd solutions which work isn’t the biggest problem here in the UK… they tend to specialise in installing STCd solutions that don’t work

It is a (seriously) interesting point of view that anything not in the STC IM is banned. I know many people hold that view. It is similar to the view (held by some I know) that any aircraft subassembly cannot be legally serviced unless a CMM (component maintenance manual) exists for it (and that is for an N-reg, too, laughably). It’s like saying that anything not permitted by the law is illegal. So if e.g. the Garmin GTN650 IM shows the Composite Out going to (say) 3 different things, only those 3 things can be legally connected. That principle would make nearly all mods to aircraft illegal… e.g. installing a power output connector to a PA28 (the connector obviously not on the 1965 TC) would be illegal unless the connector comes with an STC (which obviously it doesn’t). It also makes AC43-13 (a generic repair manual) void, which is plain silly. This is all a huge grey area and a lack of specific prohibiting regulation must mean that it is permitted.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The KI229 needs composite plus the ILS energise signal.

Yes or the OBI signal, Garmin AML STC refers to the OBI installation. The composite plus ILS energize should also work as this is standarized.

the 400Hz output from the KG102A cannot feed too many loads so sometimes a KI229 installation needs a MD26 inverter also.

The KG-102 loading doesn’t matter in this case, it doesn’t change as the KI-229 is already installed.

This is all standard practice IAW various installation manuals for the non-Garmin kit.

True, however this combination will not be mentioned in the KI-229 installation manual, neither in the Garmin GTN installation manual. While some senseable people would say you can do this, some others will not approve installation of anything that is not published in wiring diagrams by manufacturers, like this solution.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ
17 Posts
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