Looking at some recent discussions e.g. restarting the Commander or restarting the TB20, is the above at all possible?
I don’t think it is possible, so Garmin can get very good prices for their kit.
Avidyne or Aspen are not competitors in this market because they don’t have the complete “navigator” + “PFD” range. Avidyne used to make PFDs but that business died when the SR22 offered the G1000 “option” which almost everybody chose.
The only other way would be to try to certify some of the stuff aimed at the homebuilt market, some of which is aiming at certification. An airframe maker would be in a good position to do it. However, who would buy an aircraft in the Commander / TB20 class with “homebuilt” avionics, especially if the navigator can’t fly LPV and probably also the autopilot is not ILS capable. In the US, perhaps, if LPV was working, but I doubt it.
The only other option is to do what Eclipse did but, even though they apparently succeeded on the avionics portion, they burnt a billion USD and went bust…
Does anyone have any idea of the OEM price of a Gx000 installation? In terms of electronics, the manufacturing cost will be of the order of a few k USD, only.
Why would you explicitly not want a Garmin installation?
Now that Dynon is certified, I think they’ll become an alternative at the lower end. Also, someone who already has a PFD/MFD solution could buy Avidyne and it would be a pretty wicked package. The IFD550 is a pretty impressive piece of kit and in some ways slightly ahead of Garmin when it comes to functionality. I personally would not want all Garmin, I think, because I already see how they’re treating their close-to-monopoly situation. Reminds me of PT6 lockdown of the market where us users just end up over a barrell and skint.
Competition is vital.
Basically today there is the Avidyne/Aspen solution which works well enough. It could be combined with a stand alone engine display such as the EDM’s which are certified for this purpose. Whether it is cheaper as an OEM solution than a G1000 is questionable however, as OEM G1000 prices are a well kept secret apparently.
Dynon may well become a big game changer however, if their HDX series including autopilot will become available for OEM installation. It basically does what the G1000 does safe the navigators which need to be obtained separately. It can be either combined with Garmin GTN or Avidyne IFD navigators, so in theory a “Garmin free” cockpit would be possible. Dynon give a guestimate pricing of around 30k including installation for a full system without AP. AP currently is only available for Cessna 172S and the Bonanza 35 series, even though the A36, C182 and PA34 are planned for 2020. However, for a clean sheet design, I am sure that Dynon would be VERY interested to do OEM installations. It has however to be noted that Dynon currently only has FAA certification, EASA certification does not seem to be on the agenda any time soon even though they say:
I am not in the US. Can I install a Dynon EFIS in my type certificated aircraft?
The STC currently applies to aircraft governed by FAA regulations. We hope to have approval in other countries in the future.
Another question would be if it is worth looking at a hybrid steam/glass cockpit again for the entry market, such a conventional nav stack using either Garmin or Avidyne combined with an Aspen 1000 EFD or 1500 and mechanical stand by instruments. Again, an EDM certified engine monitor could take care of the power plant indication.
I did put the question forward to Mooney at the time of the M10, which also was planned to come with the G1000 system, the answer then was that a conventional package would not be cheaper as it means individual installs rather than standardized installation in each airframe. Again, this may well change now with the Dynon HDX once it becomes fully available (including AP).
Peter wrote:
Could a new certified aircraft be built with avionics other than all-Garmin?
Yes, it could – but why should it despite from the very low end market?
All options beyond Garmin imply Navigators and PFDs from different manufacturers – i.e. different Icons, buttonology, look and feel, etc. While this might be acceptable in the used market and at the very low end of trainers (where you still basically have a steam panel that might be “upgraded” to a stand alone digital PFD), who would pay for such a zoo in the “real planes” market?
Car manufacturers have realized already 20 years ago that integration of user interface, look and feel, etc. is much more valuable to new customers than offering a radio or navigator with the latest bells and whistles.
In addition to that a de facto monopoly in the avionics market is also a significant safety feature: Every FI and checker knows how to operate a Garmin installation. Every renter knows how to operate a Garmin installation (that’s the reason why you find virtually now IFD navigators in rental fleets).
Garmin has been very good in the past at pricing this monopoly advantage w/o overdoing it and therefore opening the market for another integrated competitor.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
sically today there is the Avidyne/Aspen solution which works well enough. It could be combined with a stand alone engine display such as the EDM’s which are certified for this purpose. Whether it is cheaper as an OEM solution than a G1000 is questionable however, as OEM G1000 prices are a well kept secret apparently,
I think you can install G500 txi and get the same functionality, and TXi prices are published, so you can run a comparison.
It is a shame that Aspen does not have a built-in engine monitor, otherwise would have been a good alternative to Garmin. At least on paper – got no idea what’s it like in real life.
AdamFrisch wrote:
Competition is vital.
+10!
Can you get integrated engine instruments on the G500 TXi?
Peter wrote:
Can you get integrated engine instruments on the G500 TXi?
Yes you can, according to Garmin – they can either be on your main display or on separate 7" landscape EIS display, your choise.
If you try Garmin g500 TXi Simulator you can see all the options. And how it integrates with GTN etc…
