I’m new to this forum but would appreciate some opinions. I am in a situation that will have affected someone else reading this at some point. Having flown with a pilot a few years ago who had very poor skills, nearly killed you (I am a pilot and had to grab the controls when we had stalled)and the passengers and later on had a fatal accident, would you (or should you) report your experience to the authorities whilst the investigation is on, or let the professionals do their job without interference? The accident has all the hallmarks of what I experienced first hand with the same person. I feel bad writing this as I did report the individual at the time to the CFI but was not taken seriously at the time and also don’t want to speak ill of the dead who can’t answer back and have families. I will not identify any information for obvious reasons but opinions on a moral dilemma please.
Cloudyprop wrote:
would you (or should you) report your experience to the authorities whilst the investigation is on, or let the professionals do their job without interference?
Gotta ask yourself 2 questions:
1/ would the reporting change anything now?
2/ do you thrust “the professionals” doing their job?
1/No .
2/ No and the ‘professionals’ don’t know the background of people. Risk taking, poor judgement, cocky slack attitude to flying etc. The club signs off a pilot (fear of offending, money for a paying member ?) who certainly struggled-to my mind examiners should be independent of clubs. This is where his club have some responsibility-the inevitable happened.
Clubs are not regulators and they do not “sign off” pilots in any legal sense. Clubs are businesses, and accordingly their responsibility in checking out a pilot is to protect their own interests, i.e. prevent damage to their aircraft or liability in case of an accident. They have zero legal responsibility to assure that a licensed pilot is proficient – that is the function of the most recent examiner or perhaps flight instructor, and their personal responsibility as a licensed representative of government. If there is a question about the PICs skills, the investigators will talk to individuals with delegated government responsibility without reference to whatever role they have in a club or business. The investigators will already know who they are and with respect your opinion of the pilots skills has no legal value.
Involving oneself in an accident investigation based on a personal opinion of the PICs skills at a prior date is meddlesome nonsense. My morality would dictate that I mind my own business, not the converse.
Dan wrote:
Gotta ask yourself 2 questions:
1/ would the reporting change anything now?
Yes. It would likely improve the reliability of the accident investigation.
2/ do you thrust “the professionals” doing their job?
That’s really not the point. They wouldn’t know they should ask Cloudyprop, would they?
Welcome to EuroGA, Cloudyprop 
I agree with A_A above. If I had information which may be useful to the investigators, I would offer it to them.
They may not use “hearsay” in the report, however, because the family of the deceased would likely engage lawyers, and like all of these agencies the AAIB tries to avoid hassle. But it could lead to them making additional enquiries.
@Airborne_Again, the OP is asking us guys what we think.
Most reports are very factual when published. Seldom will one question the pilot’s basic skills. I have been reading, or studying countless reports, and have to ask myself: Does one really learn something out of them? No situation is ever the same, there are gazillions of possibilities, and the human mind has demonstrated countless times its inability to learn and apply the lessons given as such.
I have been, unfortunately, closely involved in a number of aircraft accident investigations. In more than one case, reading the publicly published report had me question the accuracy and reporting of the investigation itself.
@Silvaire, good points, though a club ain’t necessary business oriented around here. A club, as an entity, usually has good knowledge of its members, and therefore has a moral responsibility.
Herein lies the crux, as pointed by @Cloudyprop. People know each other, sometimes intimately. And this very fact makes it difficult to break the mould and tell this member that his performance just ain’t good enough. The CFI/FI/Examiner’s role is crucial in this regard.
Cloudyprop wrote:
Having flown with a pilot a few years ago who had very poor skills, nearly killed you (I am a pilot and had to grab the controls when we had stalled)and the passengers and later on had a fatal accident, would you (or should you) report your experience to the authorities whilst the investigation is on, or let the professionals do their job without interference?
If you have information relevant to the accident you should report it, given that it is first hand information and not hearsay. Also given that you did feel strongly enough to report the guy to the club.
TSB’s these days are often confronted with a wall of silence as their reports often lead to legal action. Hence many people will simply shut up if they have valid information about an accident or people having been involved in one. I would say however that information such as you indicate you have, first hand experience, should be made available to the TSB.
One should ask what is the report for.
If it is just a record of what happened, fine. Plane crashed, all died, nothing more to say.
If it is to have a learning value, then including information about previous incompetence / bad decisions of the pilot, is valuable. It is an unfortunate fact that a large % of fatal accidents did involve a pilot with a substantial “local reputation”.
I have very rarely, if ever, read a GA report where I thought “that could have happened to me”. This is not because I think I am a superman. It is mostly because the reports are of no learning value, without CVR, FDR data, etc.
Cloudyprop wrote:
would you (or should you) report your experience to the authorities whilst the investigation is on, or let the professionals do their job without interference?
Well, it depends. The flying skills might have improved a lot, so it might be something completely different.
Cloudyprop wrote:
I feel bad writing this as I did report the individual at the time to the CFI but was not taken seriously at the time and also don’t want to speak ill of the dead who can’t answer back and have families.
And that changes it. I think if you’ve already reported them to a CFI, well in that case all you could do is to advise the investigators that such a report has been made on that date.
In my opinion I wouldn’t report it but if you did it once, then it would be best if you do it again. And be prepared to testify in court!
