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The scenario you really don't want to be in when flying a SEP

Every time I flew long range this scenario was in the back of my mind. Can I crash in a controlled manner in case the engine fails…..To be honest there were times I would not have been able to do that….The IR is a safety tool in a SEP but not a passe par toutes as this unfortunate accident again shows…I admit in a Cirrus they would have survived probably? What do you think?
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/306024

EBST

Vref wrote:

I admit in a Cirrus they would have survived probably?

…same probability as in a twin I’d say. Deriving from the flown distances of the track log just prior to the impact it looks like they could have made it to the close-by airport.

I think in an SEP you have to react quite quickly if you want to bring it down safely. There is no plan B, so if things go south react, steer direct airfield and use the gliding range.

Germany

UdoR wrote:

steer direct airfield

With a failed engine and with a 300Ft overcast the chance of survival is low I think…

EBST

300ft ceiling is a nightmare in parachutes and twins, let alone in singles…I don’t want to be in that situation

There is not much rocket science, unless you are overhead with 3km runway and the engine off ILS with 1:20 will be ugly with 1:10 glide into winds, especially, with ATC vectoring, I think the shortest they can give in emergency ILS is 4nm? shorty ILS is max 6nm while normal ILS is max 2nm after FAF

I would rather bet my life with GPS OBS/RBI or Synthetic-Vision to get aircraft as soon as possible near airport ARP and nail it there, however, I tried using FPV from SV to get power off STOL IFR landing either in straight-in final or spirals in simulated IMC toward a tiny VFR airfield in Essex, it’s not walk in the park with surface winds and risks of disorientation (aircraft tend to play in 45deg bank and -10deg pitches)

I will rather bet my life on keeping wings level into winds at sensible speeds with tight straps while cracking the door open, it’s what one does with sub-300ft agl EFATO in singles, gliders, bush planes, parachutes, twins…

My personal opinion is that an ILS is too precise and narrow to save the show in case of forced landing, one need high level guidance navigation from aircraft like GPS or Tablets to pick a spot and wish for the best…

The other thing I learned from this video and sad accident, with 300ft ceiling under, it will be run, run your a*** off on slightest glitch of single engine instruments, you have 3min max, this is it !

I have read that pax did send SMS to his loved ones prior to impact, that would have been tough

Last Edited by Ibra at 31 Jan 10:22
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

UdoR wrote:

I think in an SEP you have to react quite quickly if you want to bring it down safely. There is no plan B, so if things go south react, steer direct airfield and use the gliding range.

This had very few impact on the current accident. They did react quite quickly and also got to the airport in gliding distance, but were IMC basically to the ground.

There are many who say that SEP IMC should never be attempted unless there is a ceiling below of 1000 ft or so. In these cases, this is certainly a consideration unless you actually have a BRS.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

On landing in controlled fashion in hardcore IMC, this was a Mooney accident last month in similar conditions 1/ the pilot clearly had the nerves and skills for it and 2/ he managed to get rescued from the fire

If anyone crash an aircraft, let’s hope it’s in Texas where people act, not watch

The pilot and passenger survived and posted their story: they just flew wing level untill one light pole come up in the last 20ft…

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/new-video-shows-bystanders-coming-to-rescue-after-plane-crash/3148347/



Last Edited by Ibra at 31 Jan 10:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I will rather bet my life on keeping wings level into winds at sensible speeds with tight straps while cracking the door open, it’s what one does with sub-300ft agl EFATO in singles, gliders, bush planes, parachutes, twins…

The situation is not dissimilar to what I’ve learned in the Voluntary Flying Corps about what to do if you get an engine failure when flying at 250’ AGL. Yes, we did that, until EASA rules put an end to it. Great fun, but navigation was difficult because of the short line of sight. A noticeable number of people failed the low flying course because they couldn’t handle the navigation. (We were supposed to be able to do without GPS.)

Make a 30° banked turn into direct headwind. From cruise speed you can do a level 180° without power and roll out on approximately approach speed. Then full flaps and land straight ahead…

A necessary part of flight preparation was to draw surface wind arrows on you map so that you wouldn’t need to think about it.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 31 Jan 10:34
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

Make a 30° banked turn into direct headwind. From cruise speed you can do a level 180° without power and roll out on approximately approach speed. Then full flaps and land straight ahead…
- and you end up in something like this:

or this

You might as well flip a coin.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

and you end up in something like this:

Quite likely in Norway. Fortunately very unlikely in most of Sweden.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I imagine Fjords are visible in SkyDemon now? there was a bug with Norway map I recall…it’s the swim that will kill you

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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