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PA-28 D-EFWM catches fire at Speyer EDRY Germany

LGMG Megara, Greece

“The plane was destroyed by fire as the pilot started the engine of the plane. There were no personal injuries. The three occupants were able to leave the airplane in time.”

Unusual…

I bet the single PA28 exit door got really busy

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This happened to my plane long ago, when it was on rental to a club. Fortunately a nearby pilot saw it happen and rushed over with his own extinguisher, which is how I know exactly how much a PA-28 extinguisher costs…

IMHO, there’s always a reason for these fires. And that reason always has it’s roots in poor starting.

Complaints of poor starting tend to be brushed off by engineers, perhaps because they know an effective fix (new mags or carb, top overhaul, etc.) is likely to be rejected on cost grounds by flight school owners. The result is a whole raft of home grown starting recipes, often promulgated by instructors. Some of these involve vigorous throttle pumping.

After the incident, we did some tests and found that only three strokes of the throttle prior to starting was enough to have neat fuel running out of the bottom of the carb. heat changeover box (O-320-D3G) and flooding the bottom of the cowling. In contrast, no reasonable use of the primer led to fuel running out of the engine. Needless to say, an instructor had been advocating the throttle pump method.

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

There are several aspects of this accident which need investigating.

A) of course is about the way this happened. Carburettor fires are not exactly rare, but this kind of end result is. So the first question is how this happened exactly and what the reason was, the fire was not contained or extinguished following the standard procedures for such a case: Keep the engine turning with the starter while closing the mixture and turn off the fuel handle (Actually closing the mixture should already stop the flow of fuel).

B) the response of the fire brigade at Speyer. According to some information I got the based fire truck reached the airplane within 2 minutes while the engine was on fire but the cabin was untouched. The fully equipped fire truck was unable to extinguish this fire and the city fire brigade was called in. Due to organisational difficulties, the fire brigade took 9 minutes to get there. By that time the plane was on full fire.

This pic was apparently taken after the airport truck (pictured) abandoned the extinction attempt. They did get there some minutes before and alledgedly pumped several thousand liters of water on this but unexplicably had no foam on board.

Now, if a truck this size can’t deal with a simple carb fire then imho there are some questions to be asked. This kind of fire should be able to be extinguished with a hand extinguisher if it is not too much developed.

This one hits home as my plane had been plagued with starting problems for years (has been resolved finally) and this could have been me. Easily, even same engine type. So what I am musing about is also whether the old fashioned fire guard for starting, possibly a crew member with a fire extinguisher? And memorized those carb fire procedures a bit more often?

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 15 Oct 18:59
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

This pic looks like the fire truck is simply sitting there, doing nothing. There’s no jet from the water cannon and the area around the airplane appears totally dry.

You are right, so probably the pic was when they arrived. Still, in this situation, the fire should still have been able to be extinguished by a truck like this. Reportedly they discharged some massive amounts of water in a few seconds but that did not stop the fire.

This pic is taken in between the 1st and the arrival of the city fire brigade. Now the wet spot on the taxiway is visible, yet the airplane is fully in flames.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Even with throttle pumping, it’s hard to believe a few cc’s of fuel could do this and not be extinguished. But if so much fuel was pumped that it ran onto the ground and caught alight that might explain the spread to the cabin. I saw it happen to a Yak once, and although the entire engine bay went up in a wall of flames, one blast from a fire extinguisher killed it.

Some starting ‘recipes’ seem to involve having the electric pump on whilst starting. Could that be a factor? Others ‘test’ the electric fuel pump for pressure before starting, which could spray fuel into the engine bay if there’s any leak. Personally, I reckon if there’s not enough fuel left in the system from last time to prime and start the engine then there’s something wrong anyway.

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

If they had a fuel leak, then they had a lucky escape for this to not happen in flight.

A certified plane is supposed to have fireproof hoses (where they are flexible, at least, especially forward of the firewall) but that doesn’t mean you won’t have a leak, and if say the electric pump is on, the fuel spurts out at a speed which would fill a bucket in a minute or two; I’ve seen it, during testing. Uncertified… anything goes, including clear plastic hoses.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Aveling wrote:

Some starting ‘recipes’ seem to involve having the electric pump on whilst starting. Could that be a factor?

According to the Archer II POH, you should have the electric pump on whilst starting! The only exception is when the engine is flooded

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 16 Oct 11:02
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Aveling wrote:

Some starting ‘recipes’ seem to involve having the electric pump on whilst starting.
All the carburated planes I have flown called for having the electric fuel pump on during engine start. None of the injected planes.
It’s not a “recipe” if it’s in the POH.

ESMK, Sweden
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