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CRI and instructing at night

I contacted the Swedish CAA to ask about this.

My question: “Får en CRI utbilda i mörker? Alltså inte för mörkerbehörighet utan i mörker med en pilot som redan har mörkerbehörighet. Jag förutsätter förstås att CRIn också har mörkerbehörighet.”

Translated: “May a CRI instruct at night? That is, not for a night rating, but in darkness with a pilot who already has a night rating. Of course I assume that the CRI also holds a night rating.”

The reply: “Ja, det finns inget formellt hinder för detta i den situation som du beskriver.”

Translated: “Yes, there is nothing formal preventing this in the situation you describe.”

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 21 Dec 08:39
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Balliol, I think what people are getting at is:

“Just because you are instructing at night, it does not mean you are teaching night flying.”

or

“They happen to be flying at night, although not doing Exercise 20 because that’s not the purpose of the flight.”

By your interpretation, any instructor who is PIC at night is by definition always teaching Exercise 20. Clearly this is a bit mad.

EGLM & EGTN

I will concur that people always had a narrow interpretation of things done at night, “a boy and a girl in a car at night, does not mean they are…”

Last Edited by Ibra at 10 Jan 15:26
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The CAA got back to me, after me having to chase out.

The person who replied (which they further clarified as “CAA’s interpretation” is in the opinion that it is not allowed.

However, it is worth noting that they didn’t quote any relevant regulation (and dismissed a follow up asking to quote for precise regulations), unlike some emails I received from other people, who did actually cite precise regulation (in support of there not being a restriction preventing them to do so).

I believe that if someone followed the same line of thought as the interpretation of the CAA, the following wouldn’t be able to instruct at (remember, we are not talking for a rating here) night (or IMC): FI (Instrument), IRI, TRI.

I am reasonably confident that their interpretation wouldn’t hold for a second in court, but sadly, this is not important enough to me to pay someone to challenge them.

For the curious, the relevant regulations I’ve seen:

The exercise of the privileges of a licence are determined by the validity of the ratings contained therein (FCL.040).

If the licence is a PPL and includes a night rating, this means that (all of) the privileges, as determined by the ratings contained therein, may be exercised in VFR at night (FCL.810)

There is nothing exclusing the CRI from this provision.

I (and others) couldn’t also find any precise regulation that specifically restricts a CRI (or any other type of instructor) of instructing at night.

The only mention about night on the FL.905 (Instruction) is for the instruction for the night rating.

There are no provisions authorising (or restricting) any sort of instructor to instruct at night (not for the night rating) (or as a matter of sort in IMC).

Noe wrote:

The person who replied (which they further clarified as “CAA’s interpretation” is in the opinion that it is not allowed.

It comes as no surprise. The organisation is in my view Not Fit for Purpose. Individuals employed who would appear to have no clue about what they are looking at, no understanding about the advice they are giving out. The difficulty you have is that you could go and give Instruction at Night, as a CRI, and some ATO/CFI/Instructor somewhere will complain to the CAA. You will then get a letter asking you to stop doing, whatever it is, you are doing. You will then query the validity, query who complained, and then you will become the victim. All very depressing

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

I strongly recommend writing to Mr Richard Moriarty, the current CAA chief exec, a clear letter laying out the issue, detailing the reply you got and from who, and referencing the regulation.

He’s no fool and will most likely sort it, and quickly. How do I know this?

The CAA licensing dept is full of people who are totally out of their depth. I have had dealings with lots of them and not one person I spoke to was switched on.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I strongly recommend writing to Mr Richard Moriarty, the current CAA chief exec, a clear letter laying out the issue, detailing the reply you got and from who, and referencing the regulation.

Thanks. I’ll probably follow that recommendation. From his background, I’d imagine he should understand the decisions / interpretations to be backed by actual regulations (and not “what I think is right / what has always been”)

The discussion and the different interpretations are really wired regarding my experience. When I did my CRI my theoretical part to present was: How to fly save at night. The assumed target group: rusty pilots who haven’t been in the air at night for a while although they have a vfr night rating. The presentation was the preparation for a CRI flight together with these pilots. So this scenario was one chosen by the school and used as my exam case. So I was sure that I would have the right to do this in real life too (never did by the way).

EDDS , Germany

Well, I think anyone who actually bothered of reading the regulations would see it that way too!

But it is actually useful to know that other countries have very different views, especially when the regulations are the same

Thank you

Last Edited by Noe at 13 Sep 20:21

FYI, I have received confirmation from the CAA that a CRI can instruct at night as long as the night is incidental to the lesson (you are not teaching for a night rating or night rating skills)

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