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Crossing the Lyon Class C Airspace, flying to southern France

Hi everybody,

this is my first post in this forum, so please be gentle if I make some mistakes…

I’m a microlight pilote since 2014 and since I don’t like flying only around my homebase, I love flying to France (it’s relatively close to my homebase EDSO). On the easter weekend this year, I plan to visit the south of France, especially the Languedoc region. Since microlights are only allowed to fly VFR, I wonder about the best way to fly through the Lyon TMA and CTR. The thing is that I’d like to maintain my altitude throughout the whole way (about 5.000 to 7.000 ft). Otherwise, I would be forced to descend down below 2.500 ft, which is sometimes less than 1.000 ft AGL.

Since there are many of you who flew this route again and again, I would be happy if you share your experience about the best way through this CTR/TMA region. Is there a route the local controllers prefer (e.g. following some IFR-waypoints)? Or is it nearly impossible to get a routing through the Class C airspace?

Next question is the rather chaotic airspace situation around Nîmes, Orange, Avignon and Montpellier. Do you recommend avoiding this area or is it easier than it looks? It looks a bit stressful due to the many reporting points and frequency changes to get the clearances for crossing all the TMAs.

Last but not least: The only airport I know is Béziers-Vias. Do you have some other airports that you can recommend in this area? We would like to stay near the coast for some swimming or so :-) On the other days we would like to explore the terrain towards Toulouse – do you have some ideas on nice airfields there?

Thank you very much for your help and support!

Best regards, Tobias

EDSO, Germany

Do you have a transponder?

EDLE, Netherlands

It shouldn’t be a problem to do this if you have a transponder. However, as stated in the VAC you should keep an eye on the NOTAMs as sometimes they publish a NOTAM that states you should use a specific routing when crossing the CTR / TMA VFR. For the moment there is no such NOTAM, but I have seen it in the past.

EBMO, EBKT

If you speak french, you may find this interesting.
In short: plan east or west of the lower parts of LYON TMA. Stay in contact with french FIS, they will tell you what to do and they usually find an excellent compromise between your route and their airspace.
You may either proceed southbound or you may choose an easterly route between TMA Geneve and TMA Lyon, visit the Montblanc, then via the provence alps LFNA Gap, LFTP Puimoisson LFMD Cannes. Be careful, you have to respect the corridor between the prohibited areas LFR 138 and LFR95A, then you may choose to arrive at cannes via the coast or via the hills. Either way, it’s very beautiful. Cannes is not that expensive, take the bus or the taxi to the center and from there you can use a fast train to Nimes.

If you go west, it’ts even easier. FIS will guide you around Lyon, over the massiv central. Then you have ample of airfields, Lezignan-Corbieres (quiet but nice, short ride to Narbonne), Carcassone (famous, be careful of the wind, ask the locals), Oloron (nice, scenic, quiet). Montauban, Arcachon. Busy: Pau. You may know eddh.de already.
I happened to build a KMZ-file which you can open in Google Earth even on the mobile phone, which offers a geographic representation of mean review values and links to the pireps of eddh.de. Do a search at Pilotundflugzeug.

Last Edited by a_kraut at 11 Feb 17:53
Bremen (EDWQ), Germany

Welcome to EuroGA, TobiasM You don’t need to worry because, unlike the others, this is a moderated and polite forum and all questions are welcome.

In general, French airspace may look almost impossible to “work out” on their VFR charts, and often it really is, but in reality you can usually get ATC to clear you through it. Tell them your proposed route (IFR waypoints, not city names as these may be ambiguous) and that should work.

Look out for restricted areas; these are your responsibility and even if ATC clears you on a given route, you can still “bust” one of these.

In most of France you can fly VFR up to FL115 but in the Nice area you are likely to get pushed down to 500-1000ft, over/near the coast. One such flight is here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

My 2 cents :
-if you have a radio and a transponder, you will be treated just like any other SEP
- in general, avoid the big airport runway axis. All runways are North/South in Lyon, so route along the east or west of the Rhône valley and you should be ok
- if traffic is low, you may get a TMA transit without even asking. If traffic is high, you will receive almost no service and you will have to route by yourself among restricted areas. Being in contact with FIS is not a clearance and they have no responsibility on you (understand, they may well forget about you, or even deny giving FIS as a notam announced some weeks ago)

Have fun ! Flying in France is easy (the hard part is on the ground )

LFOU, France

For destinations in the south of France, check here, here and here.

Don’t be afraid of French class C/D TMAs. They are not much like TMAs in Germany, Switzerland or Britain where VFR access is regarded as “discretionary” only. In France, They WILL clear you through, often without you even asking. Just call them up and tell them what you would like.

Also, VRPs are for CTRs only, so if you fly above them, they have no meaning, since you will be transiting the TMA above.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 11 Feb 19:06
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

In terms of airports, both Montpellier (LFMT, LFNG) airports could fit your bill.

LFOU, France

2 years ago I flew from Freiburg EDTF to Candillargues LFNG (unfortunately that field is FR only) for a few days on the beach in La Grande Motte. We routed through Switzerland (very scenic), then along the Alps just south of and under Geneva’s controlled airspace (even more scenic), then the published VFR route in the TMAs around Annecy and Chambery. Exiting at WG, we got a clearance through Grenoble LFLS TMA almost overhead the field, which is a lot less busy than Saint Ex LFLL. So we avoided the whole Lyon situation basically, but we had real good weather in early june, not sure you can plan for the same routing in april. In the southern part we asked for a clearance straight through R55B from ETAKI to ORTUX and got it from the military controllers in Orange, no problem. We even got to see a military Super Puma crossing our route (the traffic call from the controllers for sure catches one’s attention). We were 4 planes (1 normal + 3 UL) in total, 5-15 minutes apart, all transponding and all talking even outside controlled airspace, no issue whatsoever.
Last summer I flew from Lyon Bron LFLY to Corsica, I had no issue getting a clearance to climb into the Lyon TMA. It’s really just the pattern into and out of LFLL they keep clean. Using the IFR points even for a VFR flight the controllers have a very good picture of your intentions.
Just squawk and talk, it will be no problem.

ESMK, Sweden

TobiasM wrote:

Since microlights are only allowed to fly VFR, I wonder about the best way to fly through the Lyon TMA and CTR. The thing is that I’d like to maintain my altitude throughout the whole way (about 5.000 to 7.000 ft). Otherwise, I would be forced to descend down below 2.500 ft, which is sometimes less than 1.000 ft AGL.

French ATC are much relaxed on TMA, CTR crossings and you can ask to stay on heading/altitude without much hassle

Just be careful not to fly VFR in any bit that is class A airspace (or restricted areas as Peter said), while ATS/FIS may “clear you trough your route” you should not go inside class A/restricted zones (on class they did come back on it and I looked dumb as hell having to turn back and descend).

In the UK, one gets used to ATC telling him if he is inside controlled airspace and insisting on him to remain outside “super-controlled airspace” (class A TMA on top of class D ), in France, these things are much “connected”

Last Edited by Ibra at 11 Feb 19:59
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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