I live near the Kremlin. GPS in cars has become legendary for its inaccuracy as you get closer. The receiver “works” but shows your position as many miles away. Russians assume this is done for security. My point is that the technology exists to provide false signals to GPS receivers. I have no idea how this is done or whether the capability is local and immobile, but if the Russians can do it, I’m sure others can too. It seems rash to become so dependent on a technology that is vulnerable when you have a decentralized, and rather inexpensive alternative that can be left in place.
We had a thread here on the cost of navaids but nobody seems to know anything accurate – or if they do they don’t want to post it.
But I bet an ILS costs 5 figures a year to run, most of it in service contracts and calibration test flights. So there is the motivation.
I am not surprised they jam GPS around the Kremlin. Otherwise it would be trivial to send a drone in… and yes the military have the capability to jam GPS to fake the position. It isn’t trivial. A couple of classic docs are here and here
Peter wrote:
The airports which have Ryanair etc will have to retain their ILSs for a long time.
It will be interesting to keep track of this to see how it plays out. The following are on the list provided in the first post as up for decommissioning and served by Ryanair …
Beziers, Carcassonne, Dinard, Dole, Nimes, Poitiers, Rodez, St. Etienne
Neil wrote:
I think the concept that GPS is a purely military system may well have been true in the past, but GPS is inextricably woven into US civilian life, including aviation, and the idea that some general could just switch it off is not realistic.
I agree. Saying that relying on the American GPS system is madness is just saying that daily life today in Europe is based on madness. If the GPS network were to become unavailable, aviation would be just a minor part of the impact. Many (most?) mobile apps and internet connections would become largely useless as would all car nav systems. Not sure of the impact of the rail networks. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Life as we know it today would perhaps not grind to a complete halt, but there would be an enormous chaos.
It will be interesting to keep track of this to see how it plays out. The following are on the list provided in the first post as up for decommissioning and served by Ryanair …
Beziers, Carcassonne, Dinard, Dole, Nimes, Poitiers, Rodez, St. Etienne
The problem is that France doesn’t seem to plan airport facilities according to who uses the airport…
Life as we know it today would perhaps not grind to a complete halt, but there would be an enormous chaos.
Yes; turning off of GPS isn’t going to happen.
Peter wrote:
The problem is that France doesn’t seem to plan airport facilities according to who uses the airport…
I don’t see the problem with that. If someone wants to keep the ILS going at such low traffic airport, they just have to pay for the maintenance / calibration.
The ANSP always offered LPV/LPV200 where the ILS was being decommissioned. LPV approaches usually offer a better service, as most of the time, the two runway ends are covered with a straight in LPV approach.
I personally think that Ryanair receive enough money at “local level” so that it is not necessary to maintain the ILS just for them…
After all, Ryanair want to use low cost facility.
AFAIK, Ryanair service to these smaller airfields is regulated by a local contract between Ryanair and the airfield operator. So the ILS supply will just be part of contract negotiations. I’ve been to a couple airfields in France with Ryanair service and piston GA can go for coffee or lunch when a Ryanair flight arrival is due. The entire airport staff is 100% focused on serving those flights. Apparently there is a bonus/malus system in the contract with the airfield getting more or less money per flight according to meeting the local service agreement (LSA) time targets.
Will they not retain the NDB approach as a GPS approach alternative?
Can Ryanair or Easyjet fly LPV at all, or LPV down to 200ft?
There is no CAT3 LPV so how does that work? I know with the Greek islands they don’t have ILS or LPV in most cases either but the wx there is a lot better.
Peter wrote:
Can Ryanair or Easyjet fly LPV at all, or LPV down to 200ft?
Airliners usually fly Baro-VNAV which is going to give them slightly higher minima than LPV.
But this inconvenience can be offset by the fact that there was no straight-in conventional approach to some runway ends where RNAV appproaches have been implemented (ie circle to land was required with high minima).
Airbus offers SBAS as optional / retrofit equipment.
On new aircraft such as the A350 or new ATR, it’s standard equipment.
Peter wrote:
There is no CAT3 LPV so how does that work?
CAT3 will require GBAS equipment. However it’s still work in progress for CATII / CATIII ops.
GBAS for CAT I is already operational. Air Berlin already flies such approach which requires specific equipment.
