boscomantico wrote:
It’s 15€, so get on with it I would say.
Well I understand that is probably the way to go because the value is so small, but it is still wrong, and the very fact that it seems the concensus from contributors with German airfields to your profile would do so shows a different attitude to UK. I do not speak German so will pay but if this happened at a UK airport or any airport where English is the first language then on a matter of principle it would be challenged.boscomantico wrote:
Also, the airport (whilst known for high and complicated invoices) didn’t really do anything wrong by not quoting the DFS fee
I have to disgree with this statement boscomatico, when asked for the cost of landing, handling etc., they gave an untruthful answer.
Patrick,
that’s wrong. Just because it’s in the pricelist doesn’t mean you have to pay it. What counts is whether you used the service or not. Did they dispose of waste for you?
I have to disgree with this statement boscomatico, when asked for the cost of landing, handling etc., they gave an untruthful answer.
Absolutely not. DFS fee is related to approaching the airport.
Semantics – you might say – but for an airport which doesn’t have anything to do with approach control services it doesn’t.
Approach control is centralized in Germany. The guy vectoring / clearing you for the approach into Düsseldorf does not even sit anywhere near Düsseldorf.
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
I do not speak German so will pay but if this happened at a UK airport or any airport where English is the first language then on a matter of principle it would be challenged
You have no grounds for your complaint. The fee is from the ANSP (ATC) and in accordance with official and published information. It has nothing to do with the airport. Like it or not, this is way it is done. See the document I linked to earlier. To the average light aircraft pilot, invoices from ANSPs might seem odd but they are absolutely standard in aviation. Jason gets one for every flight he conducts (IFR) 
As to why Germany chose this model instead of using the airport to to charge pilots, I don’t know. There is a lot of regulation and legislation involved in these ANSP <→ airport <→ pilot relationships. Keeps some people at the DFS credit and collection department employed I’d say.
Just because it’s in the pricelist doesn’t mean you have to pay it. What counts is whether you used the service or not. Did they dispose of waste for you?
Tirana LATI in Albania charged me for approach lights (among a long list of other stuff). They are “clearly visible” in the photo I took on the final approach
Aviation is full of this. In principle one should fight it but all that will achieve is that the airport manager will harden his attitude towards light GA.
N Europe has a lot of commercial transparency but not that much. Airport managers have a carte blanche in the way they run the place. They are the judge jury and executioner. There is no oversight, except with public (local government owned) airports, where the airport manager can pull the wool over the eyes of the local officials who – like most public officials everywhere – are usually completely clueless about their own job, never mind the running of some airport which they nominally own. This situation has a tendency to run for many years and then one day it explodes when the local officials realise the airport manager has been bulshitting them all along, and they close the airport, or sell it to the first bunch of crooks that come along with some “package”. I think a lot of us have seen this rather close up, too…. 
So, IMHO, one needs to pick one’s battles.
Peter wrote:
Aviation is full of this. In principle one should fight it but all that will achieve is that the airport manager will harden his attitude towards light GA.
The more I think about this kind of thing the more I believe it is simply laziness combined with ignorance combined with fear of a potential argument with some superior.
Once you complain to the people “on the ground” they immediately defend themselves as if you were attacking them personally. If you approach them nicely, they will give an explanation and tell you to whom to complain. I’ve made that experience with security people checking my pockets before jumping onto my own aircraft. I get the feeling that mistrust and fear rule at airports at every position and GA gets the shorter end of the stick because all their jobs don’t depend on us but on the airline business.
The “solution”, however, is a topic way beyond EuroGA. So it might be best discussed elsewhere.
achimha wrote:
There was a case in Hahn (EDFH) which turned from GA heaven to GA hell where a pilot appealed the invoice in court and won.
Wan’t that a contested bill from the handling agent? The pilot won on the basis that (a) most services were not provided and (b) there was no contract/agreement. If that had been a ruling in a precedent-based system like the UK it would be a watershed moment for mandatory handling…
boscomantico wrote:
Semantics – you might say – but for an airport which doesn’t have anything to do with approach control services it doesn’t.
achimha wrote:
You have no grounds for your complaint. The fee is from the ANSP (ATC) and in accordance with official and published information. It has nothing to do with the airport.
I think what Fenland_Flyer is trying to say is that when he contacted the airport they should have written at the end “These are our taxes but be aware that Dusseldorf is an airport for which also approach taxes are calculated as described in this document” and maybe give a link if they are nice. I am sure the guys know on which airport they work and that it is one of those “big” airports with additional taxes. I can understand the frustration although he cannot do anything for not being informed.
Peter wrote:
Tirana LATI in Albania charged me for approach lights
There were cases of policemen asking for snow chains for cars in July in Serbia. Unfortunately that’s the reality of Eastern Europe.
